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Discussion Starter #21
Mark what do you do for a living? lol. I need a job where I can get all the latest and greatest and order $90 of thread at a time lol
My boring job (shh, don't tell the boss) is a Power Broker/ trading analyst for a large wholesale power company. (think Enron, but we're non-profit ;))

At any rate yeah I wasn't sure I wanted to buy that much thread, but it saved me significantly off the single spool price, and since I got my rod builders dealerss license (legit now, despite the advise I got from SOL :rolleyes:) I figured I'd better get cracking on my thread art- practice- practice, etc.

So - in for a penny, in for a pound.

I like the fact that Madeira offers so many color choices and it is way cheaper than Metallic HT- it comes in 1100 yd spools- for about the same price as the 100 yd spool of Gudebrod metallic
 

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OH yeah.....about the Gudebrod metallic.....is it just me or does it seem extremely fragile? It seems to twist and kink real easily as well and get knicks in it that can ruin from the knick to the end of the thread. Just my personal experience.....Then again Ive only used one metallic in size A and it seemed manageable. I wont touch D again any time soon though. Got a gift card to Mudhole, might invest in a couple spools of that Mederia *spell check*

Per the holding the threads down with a wrap, I talked to Jim Focht (spell check, sorry Jim) and he used the sticky side up masking tape, then wraps the end on the tap once)
 

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Yeah, Im not too worried about applying CP to it. It is what it is. Id love to aquire that much stuff, but at the rate Im going now, it'll be 2020 before it'd pay for itsself lol.

EDIT: The vibrant colors are worth the CP tradeoff
 

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Discussion Starter #24
OH yeah.....about the Gudebrod metallic.....is it just me or does it seem extremely fragile? It seems to twist and kink real easily as well and get knicks in it that can ruin from the knick to the end of the thread. Just my personal experience.....Then again Ive only used one metallic in size A and it seemed manageable. I wont touch D again any time soon though. Got a gift card to Mudhole, might invest in a couple spools of that Mederia *spell check*

Per the holding the threads down with a wrap, I talked to Jim Focht (spell check, sorry Jim) and he used the sticky side up masking tape, then wraps the end on the tap once)
The metallic stuff does have issues- I have only gotten one spool that was bad (frayed) right out of the package, but you do have to be careful packing it and you should not attempt to burnish it at all. It is good for trim rings and dec wraps, BTW when I use it I don't put it thru a thread tensioner device, that has the potential to scrape the outer sheath off.
 

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The metallic stuff does have issues- I have only gotten one spool that was bad (frayed) right out of the package, but you do have to be careful packing it and you should not attempt to burnish it at all. It is good for trim rings and dec wraps, BTW when I use it I don't put it thru a thread tensioner device, that has the potential to scrape the outer sheath off.

Yep, I dont use a tensioner, but a bobbin instead (gotta get the tensioner though, seems like it makes a straighter tighter wrap) and it scrapes the outer sheath of metallic coloring off sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
just took a look at the Johnny's pond site, pretty cool.

They had some additional info on Madeira and some comparisons between Gudebrod. Madeira is slightly smaller in diameter and has a lower breaking point (approximately 20 %)- so I am wondering if it will hold up for guide wraps- especially on the heavier duty surf rods.
Any thoughts Walt ?


As fas as decorative wraps- that is where it's forte seems to be, vibrant colors covering every imaginable color and shade- over 365 colors.

BTW- Treed, if ya thought $90.00 was a bit much for thread you can order the complete spectrum of Madeira colors from Johnny's, for a mere $665.00 :D Includes your choice of storage box or wall display :p
 

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Don't use Madeira for guide wraps. Tensile strength too low and doesn't allow finish to be wicked into the fibers of the thread. Polyester also has different stretch characteristics than nylon, which will most likely negatively impact guide wrapping durability. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Don't use Madeira for guide wraps. Tensile strength too low and doesn't allow finish to be wicked into the fibers of the thread. Polyester also has different stretch characteristics than nylon, which will most likely negatively impact guide wrapping durability. :)

That was kind of my thought, I'll try the madeira for decorative wraps, but hold off on the guides until I have heard some success stories- Johnny's apparently guarantees it to hold up on guide wraps- but only in freshwater applications.
 

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I've only been using the polyneon for the decorative stuff as well, with a few underwraps thrown in. I doubt I'd trust it for guides; it might be ok for a light spinner or bait rod though.

Walt
 

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The thing that would concern me the most is that the thread is wet out by the finish. I haven't tried it yet, but I did just pick up some National Tackle thread from Merrick. Their neon colors are really nice. They don't have some of the wild colors Madeira does, but they work for my purposes. It's nylon as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
still on the fence. couldnt see what it would hurt just being a butt wrap though
My understanding is as long as you get the Madeira coated with CP you'll be good to go. I have seen some posts where the builder didn't bother with CP, the result was an ugly mess- my understanding is the Madeira was developed for use in the embroidery business and is coated with a thin film of oil that will have a bad result if it contacts finish epoxy directly.

Will be experimenting soon, but if Walts using it and Billy highly recommends it, then I'm pretty sure it will work out OK ;)
 

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Should be. Not worried about color, just durability, but on a but wrap, covered in finish, Im not sure what it would hurt?
I don't think it would hurt at all for a butt wrap, but I think Mark is saying the coating on the thread just doesn't sit well with the finish and that you must you CP first to prevent that from happening. I've never heard that before, but I'm glad I did before using it. There are several of the brighter neon colors I want to get from Johnny's pond. The only thing I've head that worries me is the size difference between Madeira and standard A thread. I've never compared the two so I don't know if it would be noticeable on a wrap.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Madeira Polyneon #40 is Embroidery thread which is gaining acceptance with rod builders. Over 340 colors give rod builders the tools to take decorative wraps to a higher level. Let's compare Madeira to what has become the mainstay of rod building thread Gudebrod. Gudebrod thread is made of nylon, Madeira is made of polyester, because of the polyester the infamous fuzzes are greatly reduced, you can put your touches and lighters away. In our opinion at Johnny's pond Madeira thread seems to lay better and is easier to compress. Strength, the most commonly asked question is how Madeira compare to Gudebrod, Gudebrod has a tensile strength of 1201 on the centinewton scale or as they say a break strength of 2.7 pounds. Madeira has a tensile strength of 1000 on the centinewton scale that is a difference of 20 percent or approximately 6 ounces of strength. Madeira is also slightly smaller in diameter .005 inch compared to Gudebrod .006 inch. We at Johnny's Pond are so confident of Madeira thread that we will guarantee any single wrap guide for any freshwater species of fish. If a wrap fails because of poor thread strength Johnny's Pond will pay for a new wrap.

Copied this over from another site.

I don't think the .001 inch difference in diameter is going to be very noticeable, if anything it should make for nicer looking wraps- just like A looks better than D.

Only way to know for sure is try it and see. Will post back my findings after a couple of experiments.
 

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I use A size thread and Polyneon together all the time I can't tell any real difference in size, the only thing really noticable is that the stretch is different.

I have epoxied over polyneon without CP and have had mixed results, the biggest problem without CP was fish eyes, but I've seen a couple tartan wraps that were done without CP that looked great.

I think the polyneon is a great product, but time will be the best test of it's durability for me.

Walt
 

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Give the Embroidery threads a shot... I have used them on several rods and even on a rod I built for a friend who owns a Sewing store.
You can find about any larger sewing store has Maderia as well as many additional brands of polyneon type thread. Have only had one bad experience with Polyneon Metallic Copper. When I put my CP on it turned the whole thing Black :eek: Had to tear it off and redo it. No huge deal as it was my rod. Thats the cool thing about building your own. If it gets messed up or don't last redo it ;) One thing I like the color seems to not bleed at all. I can't say that for some other threads I have seen.
 
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