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Yeah keep an eye out for the subaru outback w/ the dent in the bumper.. Inside job all the way.. Anybody in their right mind that is pro access, knows that vandalisim only makes matters worse..imho
 

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Could there possibly be an explanation for increasing the closure area other than that it's all about keeping us out. Jeez, put the freakin' signs back up and forget about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The antis aren't making friends with the local authorities either. I talked to a few rangers and DMF officers and they said the flood of calls about a possible dog off leash, or a truck they saw had to be going faster than allowed, and other calls crying wolf. The enforcement folks I talked to said it takes away from time spent doing more important tasks(I didn't ask what tasks they where).

PEEWEE, we saw that Subaru on Ocracoke a couple weeks ago along with an old hunchback looking lady with a man that had an old wooden tripod and field gear on SP road. Then later I saw their car and it was an old ratty thing that smelled like burnt oil with a hint of antifreeze.
 

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Omg, this 50-meter expansion rule seems so counterintuitive to me. #1, they decide the birds need X amount of space for pre-nesting, if a sign get's busted down that doesn't mean the birds need MORE space. So obviously the 50-meters expansion of the area is meant as a punishment. But why punish 1 group of people (pro-access) regardless of who does the vandalism. #2 This asinine rule is a big fat invitation for anti-access folks to do the vandalism. Just look @ this case. It wasn't some drunk kids that crashed thru a sign & tore up & down the beach raising hell & destoying nests or nesting area. It wasn't a fisherman that just broke thru the line & went down the beach, parked & fished his favorite spot. It was a person that pulled up, broke off several signs without even bothering to cross into the closed area (as I understand the article @ least), then left. If this were a pro-access person upset about the closure they would have to be the dumbest person in the world given the 50-meter rule. I'm certain this has to be an overzealous environmentalist that is anti-access & is abusing rules that are already set up in their favor. Break the rules, reap the rewards. It's sick!



I'm sure this will happen again. I really hope they catch someone doing this & whoever it is, I hope they throw the book @ them. Give them the full $5000 fine & jail time! And if said person is a pro-access eco-terrorist then hopefully they(the powers that be) will realize how absolutely stupid the 50 meter rule is, then change it. I mean it really seems unconstitutional to punish 1000's of people for the stupid acts of one. 50 meters is a probation sentence handed down to everyone because 1 person commits a crime.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just so mad right now. I really feel for all of you down there. I only want to visit to fish for a few days & now will probably choose some place else, you'all have to deal w/ it year round. So sorry.

gus
 

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Omg, this 50-meter expansion rule seems so counterintuitive to me. #1, they decide the birds need X amount of space for pre-nesting, if a sign get's busted down that doesn't mean the birds need MORE space. So obviously the 50-meters expansion of the area is meant as a punishment. But why punish 1 group of people (pro-access) regardless of who does the vandalism. #2 This asinine rule is a big fat invitation for anti-access folks to do the vandalism. Just look @ this case. It wasn't some drunk kids that crashed thru a sign & tore up & down the beach raising hell & destoying nests or nesting area. It wasn't a fisherman that just broke thru the line & went down the beach, parked & fished his favorite spot. It was a person that pulled up, broke off several signs without even bothering to cross into the closed area (as I understand the article @ least), then left. If this were a pro-access person upset about the closure they would have to be the dumbest person in the world given the 50-meter rule. I'm certain this has to be an overzealous environmentalist that is anti-access & is abusing rules that are already set up in their favor. Break the rules, reap the rewards. It's sick!



I'm sure this will happen again. I really hope they catch someone doing this & whoever it is, I hope they throw the book @ them. Give them the full $5000 fine & jail time! And if said person is a pro-access eco-terrorist then hopefully they(the powers that be) will realize how absolutely stupid the 50 meter rule is, then change it. I mean it really seems unconstitutional to punish 1000's of people for the stupid acts of one. 50 meters is a probation sentence handed down to everyone because 1 person commits a crime.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just so mad right now. I really feel for all of you down there. I only want to visit to fish for a few days & now will probably choose some place else, you'all have to deal w/ it year round. So sorry.

gus
Everyone I know feels the same way you do. It doesnt make since for the fisherman to do this. I firmly believe it has to be some of the the other dumb asses involved. It is a very easy way for them to get the closures expanded very fast. I also think if they are caught, they should drop them off at the point one dark night with a sign on telling everyone what they did:D. I think that they would probaby learn their lesson pretty quick
 

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Everyone I know feels the same way you do. It doesnt make since for the fisherman to do this. I firmly believe it has to be some of the the other dumb asses involved. It is a very easy way for them to get the closures expanded very fast. I also think if they are caught, they should drop them off at the point one dark night with a sign on telling everyone what they did:D. I think that they would probaby learn their lesson pretty quick
I agree with dropping them off at the point! You could probably drop them off anywhere around here though, and they would learn real quick... Such a shame. Has anybody wondered why they won't close the beaches down in front of the rental homes? The beaches in front of the rental houses right now are not nearly as busy as the point/spit/etc.. with people. Sometimes I wish those creeps would try to shut down a few miles of prime real estate in front of the homes, then finally all the homeowners (many of which are doing very well financially) would be forced to join the fight.

I know it seems horrifying to talk about closing more beaches, but it just pisses me off that the DOW/Audobon keep picking on the little guys. Wish they'd go round for round with some of the wealthy around here.
 

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Mike some of those rich homeowners are the ones fighting to have the villages closed down. Not all of the homeowners down there are pro access, in fact some are quite the opposite as evidenced by some of the representation at Reg-Neg.:mad:
 

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Hey Bastardo, I am curious about that last comment, If you don't mind, who was anti access from Ocracoke at Reg-Neg. I lived there for 10 or 11 years and don't ever remembering residents choosing sides like you are referring to. Other than "Protecting the resource" I don't recall a collective environmental concious rearing its head at any time. Ocracokes main draw has always been the beach and its fishing. Something advocated wholeheartedly by the owners and proprieters. Those that are enthusiastic about birds generally are in a blind somewhere early in the morning. I would like more factual evidence.
 

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Hey Bastardo, I am curious about that last comment, If you don't mind, who was anti access from Ocracoke at Reg-Neg. I lived there for 10 or 11 years and don't ever remembering residents choosing sides like you are referring to. Other than "Protecting the resource" I don't recall a collective environmental concious rearing its head at any time. Ocracokes main draw has always been the beach and its fishing. Something advocated wholeheartedly by the owners and proprieters. Those that are enthusiastic about birds generally are in a blind somewhere early in the morning. I would like more factual evidence.
I think he's refering to the "millionare row" in Hatteras.. Also the Frisco home owners... Most of whom are out of state folks that were represented at reg-neg.... I agree with you about Ocock residents,beach access is where much of thier bread is buttered...
 

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You can look at the picture and see that the person responsible pulled up slowly to the post, (no braking at all or you would see a little sign of digging in), and pushed gently until the post broke, backed away, and left. It's almost like they were trying to see how gently they could break it! Hardly the work of a crazed vigilate Hell bent on vandalizing. It will continue until DOW/Audobon get the closures they want!
 

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I think he's refering to the "millionare row" in Hatteras.. Also the Frisco home owners... Most of whom are out of state folks that were represented at reg-neg.... I agree with you about Ocock residents,beach access is where much of thier bread is buttered...
DD is right on. I definitely wasn't referring to O-coke, and was talking about the rich folks in Hatteras and the out of towners in Frisco. Mainly the folks who want their own private beaches in front of their homes. :rolleyes:
 

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It wasn't an attack by any means, brother. I never did really become aware of 2 sides against each other until beach closure became an issue here in Buxton. I have been told that the opposite side resides here in Buxton Woods,close to where I live, maybe too close for comfort. You see, even a statement like that is how it gets started and blown out of proportion. As for the knuckleheads on Ocock that are responsible, word will leak out, because in winter there is nothing else to talk about. When the acts of arson occured here at the point, people pointed in different directions,i.e., surfers, students. Wintering juvenile delinquents[I am guessing, rather than environmental extremists] are most likely to be the cause of the mischief. Old couple in a beat up Subaru? Too bad it carries a federal penalty, and someone will be made to pay, eventually. In the mean time, stay calm, and hope they haven't ruined it for South Point already.
 

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I was there Sunday mid day and got to drive to the point, looks like it will be the last time until late Sept before I can get out there again if this keeps up.
did not get any fish but was great just to be out there before everything is closed . I do hope they find these people and they get what they have coming. some people just can't stand for others to enjoy life and have some happyness enjoying the things they love. I will keep going to Hatteras and keep fighting for open beach. the sport that I enjoy and my happyness.
and for all the others in this fight :beer: and I will see you on our beach.
 

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I'm sorry for being too lazy to try to find a current map & figure out how to read it, but like I said i'm not local. But I'm wondering is the point still open? and if so will it likely be open much longer? And if yes to those questions then has anyone considered making a few bucks by ferrying fishermen back & forth via boat?
 

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I'm sorry for being too lazy to try to find a current map & figure out how to read it, but like I said i'm not local. But I'm wondering is the point still open? and if so will it likely be open much longer? And if yes to those questions then has anyone considered making a few bucks by ferrying fishermen back & forth via boat?
The point in Buxton is still open. Nobody knows how long it will remain open. As far as having a boat out there to ferry people, you could not pay me enough. Thats literally asking someone to take people over/into/onto/around diamond shoals over and over.

Although I bet you could make some cheese doing it! (It is illegal to do beach launches with power equipment, unless your in the rescue squad! :eek:;))
 

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Investigation needed, how do we get it?

Actually Murray seems to be identifying the group. Read the following very carefully and exactly as written.


Quote:
This deliberate act of vandalism is contemptible and appears to be aimed at reducing access for the many park visitors who do comply with park regulations.
Who do you know who wants to reduce access for law abiding park visitors? And does

Anyone remember who spoke out the loudest
against the attempt to secure permission for private citizens to park without lights and watch closures? Hint, it wasn't the park service.


That said, we can make all kinds of supositions and never prove anything. The real crime here is that this is a federal crime with $5,000 fine and up to six months imprisonment. So why isn't there a full ferensic investigation. We all know that tire treads with this much detail could easily be matched to tire make, maybe even date of manufacture and vehicles which use them as standard equipment. This could be used to determine if these activities are being perpetrated by the same individual. It could also be used to rule out park service vehicles.

Add insult to injury, consider that fact that the NPS has been dilegent enough to check several people for fishing licenses in the past week. I'm not saying they should enforce rules (although I question the authority to enforce DMF rules), managed to cite numerous persons for not staying far enough below the tide line or walking in the water at the Oregon inlet but had failed dismally in attempts to identify vandals responsible for 8 incidents since the consent decree was approve. As near as I can tell the park service has not even engaged law enforcement in efforts to mount a full investigation.

Which brings me to a question. Keeping in mind that any vehicle, including a park vehicle, could have caused the damage, is it possible to force an investigation by alledging that a park vehicle was used (eveyone is a suspect)? That is, if the park service won't force a full scale forensic investigation can someone else?
 

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Surely all that would be needed to be done would be report to the police or park service that you were witness, at a distance, of a vehicle(you are to far away to give a precise desciption) commiting the the act. Once a complaint has been filed, it has to be investigated.


It's not illegal to have not "perfect" eyesight, is it?
 
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