I dunno, but it's my belief the UK developed better equipment and technique out of necessity, so shorebound casters could reach where the fish are. They have to be able to throw long. I've heard it said that if a rod isn't capable of casting far, it ain't worth a plug nickel and won't sell in the UK.
Still, it'll be interesting to hear from our UK brethren on this one.
bigwill is part way there, longcasting for fishing is necessary in a lot of situations, our fish stocks have been hammered, BUT it is a skill to be used when necessary. yes, i think we do enjoy better weather conditions for casting but it is not always windy, a factor here maybe that there are a lot of casting clubs around the country, you can cast at an event just about every weekend thru the year, and usually against some of the top guys, here we learn from watching and listening to some of the best casters in the world, some of the new guys learn quickly and we have a new bunch of top casters. i know from experience of casting in the US, the air is humid and kills a cast, i was out practicing with big lou a few years back, we were hitting them as hard as we could and only just topping 700 ft, other days i,ve cast and gone over 800, i would guess spring time would be best for the biggest distances, look at the distances cast at the corpus open last year, heck, even nick meyer cast 748 ft. hope this answers a few questions, i'm off to work now, back on this evening, 6pm EST, talk some more then.
Rojaway, I cast that far because I love Texas. I was speaking to Big Lou. He said "when he was in the UK the sinkers did cast further than they did in the US". I remember a mate of mine sitting in a Jumbo jet waiting for the air to cool before they could take of. Maybe the cooler air makes the sinker fly better. Did you see I will be in Florida the same time as you. I feel a party coming on. (Breakaway Power casting Board.) Nickaway.
morning george!good to see ya over here nick, i remember lou saying about casting further in the UK, but as i have posted before, a lot of practice is necessary to perfect the cast, back in the UK, apart from practing about twice a week, i would cast at, something like six national tounaments, six regional tounaments and a couple of internationals, so most of the tie i was casting against top class competition.
despite us limeys having a reputation for being good losers, we want to win as much as the next guy.
here's a question for US casters, how many tournaments do you cast in thru a year, although the distances we have to travel in the UK are not as far as in the US,traffic is much worse, eg, last year i flew into london and had a 120 mile drive to my home town, it took me over 5 hours, while field practice is important, try to get to as many tournaments as you can, they do bring out the best in you and you get to see and talk to the top guys.
This is a complete shot in the dark. Although I lived in the south of England for a while, I'm still a newbie with distance casting.
Environmental conditions, while a good theory, just doesn't hold up. I've never lived in a more humid place in my life than England. Temperatures, humidity, elevation and every other atmospheric condition I can think of are relatively similar to many regions in the US. I think the difference is cultural.
The anglers I got to know in the UK had a different style; they were more focused on the process of fishing, the rituals of angling. Those of us in the US are more results-oriented, and while we are capable of enjoying a day out fishing, we have one end--catching fish. UK anglers want to catch fish, but they seem to focus on specific parts of angling--making themselves experts at fly-tying, long distance casting, or one specific species that they pursue passionately.
Just a few cultural observations that may or may not be valid. But the fact remains that Brits do seem to excel in this field. Good question longcaster! There could be dozens of theories.
i'm not sure of that russ, there's been loncasting in the US since at least the 1920's, sand flea, i'd not looked at it that way, but it's possible. and , as i posted earlier, our fishing is hard, so we may as well spend our time casting, catching is getting harder over here, to many of us, a big cast is as good as a big fish, (and probably easier to get)
just keep practicing, you alteady have some great casters with several more almost there, i've seen the rapid rise of daylin vick down in texas, and a couple more not far behind, and i know you americans are very competitive, persistence pays off!
I don’t think it is a phenomenon limited just to US casters but here comes my reply…
Casting appeared to reach a peak in the USA during the 1950’s, I believe it was in the 60’s that the East Coast organisations changed the events from leader to level-line event. This appears to be when much of the enthusiasm in casting was lost.
In the UK tournament casting has been in line with Formula One motor racing – US equivalent Indy Car series? – in so much as it is a showcase for high performance rods and reels and where many of the technical advances are made that drip through to the general tackle trade. The current crop of magnetically braked reels being a good example.
I first visited the US in 1985 where a colleague and I gave a casting demonstration/seminar sponsored by Terry Carroll and Joe Moore/Shooters Supply. Casting appeared to be taking off again at this time and I believe it is this large gap in the history of US surf casting competition that casting in the UK has progressed further than in the US.
In the last 16 years US casting has had leader type competition casting and has progressed considerably. However, tackle requirements for actual fishing in our two countries is quite different. We have to get two or three small baits – by your standards – a long way out to catch relatively small fish.
Okay we used to have good cod fishing, I personally have caught cod to 32lb from the beach. But believe me, having taken bull reds in Texas and bluefish on the East Coast there is no comparison in the fighting stakes. However, when I first visited back in ’85 with my Quattra’s the rods we saw - typically Hatteras Heavers - were still extremely basic plain glass.
Speaking purely technically, surf/casting rods produced by specialist UK manufacturers are extremely advanced by comparison to US manufacturers. While there may be many excellent rods in the US they are not in the same league in terms of materials, design manufacture. Having worked in two of our top specialist factories I know this for a fact. Another factor associated with this fact is that many US anglers rely on custom builders to make their rods for them. These are based on stock blanks cut and shut to what that particular builder believes is required.
Twenty years ago in the UK you may have cut an inch or two off the tip to firm up the action but for a number of years now you pays your money and gets a rod ready to go. These rods are designed to perform exactly as they come by - in most instances - people that know what they are doing in terms of casting and produce a range of rods to suit various casting styles and angling situations.
However, this is not the end of the story, the USA is an extremely large country. In fact the Golden Gate Casting Club of San Francisco held a tournament against an East Coast casting club with results being transmitted by telegraph after each round! Here in the UK we hold five national events through the year and no one is more than five to six hour drive away. It is possible to attend a casting event somewhere in the country almost every weekend of the season.
This means there is a great pool of knowledge that can be shared – not always willingly – but anyone can get in a car and drive to an event to see the big boys cast and learn. This is not always possible in the US due to the lack of ‘local’ tournaments being advertised in a national magazine and the shear distance between venues.
Good casting - BB
Thanks for the historical capsule BB. I thoroughly enjoyed that, and the rest of your reply.
I'd like to comment, and expand, on this a bit:
"...rods are designed to perform exactly as they come by - in most instances - people that know what they are doing in terms of casting and produce a range of rods to suit various casting styles and angling situations."
Advertising and marketing here in the States is fierce. You pick up a catalog and you see a myriad of rods with technical descriptions about all of their components, and "use" descriptions, some right down to the species of fish one might expect to catch with one certain rod - leaving the consumer to think they need that one certain rod for that one certain fish. I find that UK rod descriptions lack some of that "technical" detail in advertising, leaving the consumer to "trust" in the ability of the rod to fit the generic casting style or angling situation for which the rod is intended. Here in the States, it's been a long time coming for rods that are dedicated to, and advertised strictly for, "field" or "competition" use. And I'm not even sure we're all the way there yet. Said differently, I find it difficult, even today, for US casters to make a decision on which rod is better suited for long distance comp use, and the selections are still limited over here, at least that's been my experience. I believe those decisions come easier in the UK.
Please, I'm not implying anything here, or suggesting that either country's "system" is better, or lacking, over the other. It's just that personally, I still find it difficult here in the States to find-and-pick-and-choose the (comp) rod of choice. I'm not really sure what my point is beyond that, though the knowledge base, and the willingness to share, is improving.
In the UK, distance casting came from necessity. Necessity of getting through shallow sloping beaches and shallow water, to waters that might be deeper and more productive where certian target species might be.
In the US (East Coast at least), there is a different structure to the beach, with more troughs and bars, or other fish holding structures, which are usually much closer to the shore. With that, you don't have to cast that far to catch fish and a 200 yd+ cast might well throw you way over potential fish holding spots. I personally have hit many nice reds 10-20 feet off the beach, while people throwing 10-20 yards weren't getting anything. Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm deffinately not against distance, and anyone that knows me, knows most of my gear is set up for optimum potential distance, but most of the time, it just isn't necessary (for me anyways).
I find this thread intresting, Casting has become more of a sport in the UK with a larger emphasis in personal fitness. Some of the new rods on the market are so powerfull that unless your fitness levels are high there is no way that a respectable distance will be achieved.
Roj & BB have stated that in the UK you can cast at a tournament every weekend throughout the year, this is true. Between tournaments no doubt casters are doing one of two things,either out practicing or down the local gym keeping fit. I have been guilty of the second because a reasonable fitness level does help when trying to cast a long way.
This is a sport that can be enjoyed by all age groups and fitness levels, but I believe that only those who have a good fitness level will ever achieve those 800ft casts, Yes it can be done by those who have natural casting talent like BB & Roj, but the majority of casters will resort to the 2 grunts technique.
Never have cast in the US, but have been there on my holidays I agree that the weather is different and casting is affected by the weather conditions. It must be said that some UK casters who have achieved massive distances at local events find it very different when casting at the UKSF events where the court is almost level and only just above Sea Level, it is a rare day when there is a wind at Huntingdon which will help the caster.
My "friends" tell me I'm "big and strong", albeit overweight, out of shape and way beyond prime to achieve the "greater" distances on the field. But it's fun at all levels. My goal, to be one of the few at "60" to be at "600". A paltry 500+ with an off-the-shelf rod and simple overhead thump, tells me to go for it. But the gym, at my age and condition, egads!?! Thoughts of me in a thong gym suit, or lycra spandex outfit, are off limits, downright immoral and maybe even illegal for anyone's well being OR eyes!! Reckon I'll go on dreaming about that 7 or 800 feet. Maybe even 600!! Or hey, maybe we should push for an "over 50" category!!? But the gym!?!?
Hi all! I'll vote for the over 50 club!
I am curious about the atmospherical effects. I know most cars now have preasure sensors to help keep the fuel mixture adjusted. I think maybe its the preasure more than the humidity. BB what did you hit last year at the Nationals in the rain? Did you think at the time that it should have been more?
Poser, if you are talking about air density there could be an effect. When I used to race bikes we would actually varty the percentage of nitro according to the air density. On a good day when the air was dence we would run less percentage, on a bad day we would dump it in. The mixture varied as much as 5 per cent. The factors were temp, humidity and barometric pressure.
dont take this the wrong way but having watched the boards this one ,breakaway and north east sea angling i believe that the usa caster is far to involved with detail of tuning ,bearings ,rods conditions etc. i cant speak for anyone else but practise is the issue we are discussing or should be.
i in my first year of learning to cast spent about 5 months trying to do it, then entered a comp cast 630' five comps later i ended with 750' the comps were 2 weeks apart and i broke my pb on average 3 times a comp. i practised every night for approx 4 hours a night for the duration of the competitions 12 weeks in total. i then bought a mag reel and started filling the reel overfull i also practised through the winter about 2 hours a night 5 nights a week this was in the dark with no lights except a chemical light on the leader just above the lead casting into water (you can see the light all the way till it hits the water) i then joined the uksf that year i was best newcomer and had casts to 840 feet in local competition. i feel this might show a difference in the dedication between uk & usa casters.
No offence taken. That is an amazing effort! When I first got "hooked" I was going out every morning for an hour or two until the light faded in the fall, but I didn't get much improvement out of it. Much later I heard someone say that practiceing a bad techneque is no help at all. I am wondering how you got so good without help?
I also want to ask about your overfilling the spool. I had just about come to the conclusion (with others) that underfull was less weighty and therefore took less magnetic control initially and was the thing to do.
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