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Has anyone else noticed that shock knots that work perfectly well on conventionals cause problems on spinners? I've noticed the spider hitch/no-name combo has a tendency to hang in the first or second guide during a cast, often leading to break-offs.

It's particularly pronounced when using 20#/50# line, but it even happens with the #17/#40 sometimes.
 

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Yep Ive had that problem when I would attach my flurocarbon to braid do u know of any remedies or better knot combos to use

Chesapeake
 

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The line comes off spinners in big loops. Centrifugal force throws the heavier knot far out to the side. So, on the cast, the knot section of your line is really entering the gathering guide more from the side than it is directly from the reel. The knot then gets fouled momentarily on the guide and then bad things happen.

The line comes off a conventional in a straight line (or relatively straight line) so it feeds directly into the gathering guide with no hang-ups.

I tried using a 50# mono shock leader with 20#Power Pro running line. When it worked, it worked really well but far too often I'd get break -offs as you described.

I was trying to use the mono shocker on the spinner because braid can really tear up your casting finger when throwing heavy weights. Also, I wanted the mono leader on there to carry my FF rig. Obviously it didn't work so now I use a 50# Power Pro shocker and tie in a section of 50# mono to the end that stays outside the guides when casting. Didn't solve the braid on the finger problem but the FF rig works great!
 

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I usually bring a big spinning heaver as a guest rod in the summer when throwing big payloads (8 oz with 6-8 oz of bait) at night for blacktips or whatever else wants to bite. Makes it a lot easier for friends to fight fish as opposed to conventional gear. I normally run 20 lb mono main line to 60 lb shock with a bimini/no name connection. I like to trim the tag ends as close as possible and then coat with superglue. Not only does this give me peace of mind that the knot won't slip, but it gives both knots a smooth, uniform profile. I have very few problems with knots hanging in the guides during the cast. I also think it helps to keep the shock leader as short as possible.
 

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SF, I used to fish conventionals exclusively, but I used to customize the rods by replacing the many eye's with three of the biggest eyes I could get my hands on and the biggest top eye. The major problem I would encounter would be the bail arm snapping shut in mid cast causing the beloved zing-pow. This was easily remedied by removing the bail arm but leaving the roller.
Check your eye's and make 'em bigger and less of them.
 

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shorten the shock leader a good bit and I have found this helps. On a conventional you need 5 or 6 wraps around the spool well this isnt the case for a spinner as I use 2.5-3 wraps or less and it seams to zip straight thru the eyes not having time to catch. Try it and let me know if it helps you out any.
 

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I have experienced the same problems but haven't tried the glue trick. I'd say 20% of my casts were hung up for heaver type casting.

All I could come up with is bumping the running line up to 25# mono and not use a shocker...just a long bite leader. Another way is to use braid as the running line w/out a shocker. Each of these solutions are not perfect.
 

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I have not had a problem with the knot snagging on the gathering guide, but i have had a problem with the shock leader snagging on the knot while the knot is still on the spool. It happens even with the tag ends trimmed as near to flush as I can get them.

I solve this by making sure as I wind the line onto the spool so that the knot lies right along the bottom, on the spool.
 

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I solve this by making sure as I wind the line onto the spool so that the knot lies right along the bottom, on the spool.

Yeah, the knot has to be the last thing to come off the spool. But that only solves one part of the problem!:confused:

It isn't the only reason but the shocker knot problem on heavy spinners is one of the reasons why at around six ounces of weight, I use nothing but conventional.
 

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????? I am confused

As a Spinner only Surf fisher, I have to ask why are you reeling your leader into your rod???:confused::confused:

I mean, a 3-4 ft 60 lb leader is really all you need and you should have that much (maybe more) hanging out of the rod to add to the centrifugal force as you bring the rod around from back to front or from the sand to the sky, depending on your casting technique. Physics says the further from the rod tip your weight is, the faster it's speed will be and the further it will fly. So to me your knot and leader should never even pass through the ferrules.



So I can't imagine you throwing the weight and bait dangling only inches from your end ferrule with the leader and knot reeled up into the rod/reel.:confused::confused:

For my spinners, I tie a Surgeons loop on the rod/line end of the leader, snell the hook on the other end of a 3ft leader, use a weight slider between the snelled hook and the Surgeon loop, add a 5-8 oz frog's tung weight to the slider and let her rip. I get 80-100 yards plus and more if I really want to try to rip it and risk cutting my finger tip off in the process:eek::eek::):):D:D
 

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Flea you might try an alberto knot.. I don't use spinners except sightcasting,and jigging,and just tie bimini to no-name there,but I don't have anymore than 18 or so " of leader so it's not in the guides..The alberto has a low profile and is the strongest singleline connection I have found... Saw another knot on Open Forum recently that would work,kinda like "Chinese hancuffs",but looked like it would take forever and a day to tie...
 

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Has anyone else noticed that shock knots that work perfectly well on conventionals cause problems on spinners? I've noticed the spider hitch/no-name combo has a tendency to hang in the first or second guide during a cast, often leading to break-offs.

It's particularly pronounced when using 20#/50# line, but it even happens with the #17/#40 sometimes.
It's a heck of a good reason to go conventional! :p:D

Flea....use the force....come to the darkside...
 

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I had the same knot problem on my spinner and became so frustrated I eliminated the shock leader and just ran with the 20lb.line.
I took the advice I got on this forum and bought an OM 12ft. 3-6oz. rod with a Penn 525mag and just set the mags on slow, and it`s very user friendly for a beginner.
 

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I have tried to get Flea to come back to the Dark side but I guess he has to much of that Yankie blood in him,,, he also likes to pound his PVC tubes into the sand too :eek:

Flea next time down I will show ya a knot (aint saying which one as to not start a fight) but I am headed south this weekend lookn for them Spoty fish :D
 

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Flea next time down I will show ya a knot (aint saying which one as to not start a fight) but I am headed south this weekend lookn for them Spoty fish :D
Flea, whatever you do don't use Shooter's albright.

That's a lost fish just waitin' to happen. :p
 

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As a Spinner only Surf fisher, I have to ask why are you reeling your leader into your rod???:confused::confused:

I mean, a 3-4 ft 60 lb leader is really all you need and you should have that much (maybe more) hanging out of the rod to add to the centrifugal force as you bring the rod around from back to front or from the sand to the sky, depending on your casting technique. Physics says the further from the rod tip your weight is, the faster it's speed will be and the further it will fly. So to me your knot and leader should never even pass through the ferrules.



So I can't imagine you throwing the weight and bait dangling only inches from your end ferrule with the leader and knot reeled up into the rod/reel.:confused::confused:

For my spinners, I tie a Surgeons loop on the rod/line end of the leader, snell the hook on the other end of a 3ft leader, use a weight slider between the snelled hook and the Surgeon loop, add a 5-8 oz frog's tung weight to the slider and let her rip. I get 80-100 yards plus and more if I really want to try to rip it and risk cutting my finger tip off in the process:eek::eek::):):D:D
Sure hope that fireline is more than 20# test (at least 50, I hope). Otherwise please let us know when you are coming to Hatteras so I can bring my helmet.
 

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Sure hope that fireline is more than 20# test (at least 50, I hope). Otherwise please let us know when you are coming to Hatteras so I can bring my helmet.
Yo dude,,,check out the name...Fireline20..
Now from that, what line do u think I use,,,,,:D:D

Hello,,, 60 #lb, leader, 20# Fireline :cool::cool:

You don't need a helmet unless your 100 yards off shore in a kayak.

Call me when u want a demo and u can paddle fast enough to get out of the way of my accurate spin reel cast from 100 yards:D:D:D:D

Why do people want to challenge known fact with such a challenge:--|:--|
 

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Has anyone else noticed that shock knots that work perfectly well on conventionals cause problems on spinners? I've noticed the spider hitch/no-name combo has a tendency to hang in the first or second guide during a cast, often leading to break-offs.
Guide wraps can have many causes; they arise with ever increasing frequency as your casting improves and line velocities increase. These problems are not deficiencies in your knot or your reel or your casting motion . . . They are exposing a flaw in the design of spinning rods sold today.

Spinning guide design and layout are stuck in the '1950's when reel spools were short and shallow, glass rods were soft and mushy and casters were barely achieving 60 yards with thick mono.

Nowadays, putting a long spool reel on a long, high-modulus graphite rod capable of generating considerable tip speed but using guide designs and layouts from the cold war era is bound to cause problems.

On most spinning rods the collector or choke guide is too close to the reel and ALL the guides are too large. This flaw isn't a problem for most casters; only when line velocities exceed what the guides can handle does this rear it's ugly head. The line "blows by" a particular guide when moving at high speed . It isn't always the first guide; but given a particular reel, rod and caster the problem is usually confined to one guide (maybe the second or even third from the collector).

Think of the line coming off the reel as a waveform; the "coils" are large and close together when first leaving the reel. As distance increases from the spool the coils get smaller because they are getting l o n g e r, being stretched by the sinker pulling on the line.

This means at 27 inches the shorter "coils" are striking the ring of the guide at a hard angle and they catch on it. Now move the guide further away and not only are the coils smaller they form a shallower angle and flow through a smaller guide smoother than a big guide. Now the line is flowing along the rod like a laser, there is no slap, there is no blow-by, there is only a clean frictionless zip . . .

So, you have two alternatives . . . Either choke the line quickly but further away from the reel or try to gradually choke it without disrupting the waveform. Only the first is an option when one is utilizing long stiff rods and powercasting energy.

Forget the big rings build with a 40 collector at the largest and move it out from the reel . . . At least 40 inches for a 5- 8 oz distance heaver.

As most know here I'm a big fan of the Lowrider concept and my distance set-ups utilize it and the system's most striking feature, a 20 mm collector guide that sits anywhere between 47 and 51 inches from the reel stem.

13'-2" AllStar 1507, Daiwa Tournament Surf Basia w/ 20lb Sufix running line and 65 lb PP casting leader.


I have a 1569 rung with Lowriders too; you don't want to know how far that throws 8&Bait.

You conventional purists would be in for a big surprise casting a set-up like these (a much longer walk than you are accustomed to retrieve your sinker). :eek: :D :popcorn:
 
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