Pier and Surf Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The physics of rod length to tip speed is definative; the tip will travel farther in the same length of time the further it is away from the folcum. So the longer the rod the faster the tip speed. That said, why don't all casters cast the longest rods we can get? Sounds reasonable huh? But, we all know that rod length gets to a point of diminishing return because of the pressure's applied at this folcum and the short applied power lever (upr and lwr hands). What a caster can handle has alot to do with their physical size, strength, weight, and conditioning.

So what length rod do you feel optimizes the physics of casting when we throw the human element into the equation?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
Subjective by individual only-------Individuals have to determine by trial and error!

[This message has been edited by longcaster (edited 01-28-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
Well said Longcaster. I agree, the rod has to be correct for the individual caster and their style. I know guys that can smoke me with a 12' pole and vice a verca with a 14. I also think the action is as important as the lenth. I am interested in trying some heavy shock leader to see if less stretch gains anything. It sure would be neat if we could just plug in some fancy math formula and come up with the perfect rod huh. I wonder if any manufacture will put computerised spool controll on their reels for the olympics, wouldn't surprise me. Kinda ramblin aint I.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
DDEcevR,

Just when I'm about to start napping, you hit me with a brain burner and ruined my nap. LongCaster is correct. It required trial and error. That said, last year I cut 12" off my casting rod 10 days before the nationals. I reduced the rod to 12'-9" from 13'-9". I was able to generate more speed and greater distance. I was not able to break 600 feet until I cut the rod down. That was a very drastic solution. I do not recommend it to anyone else. Now that I've had more training, I can handle the longer rod. The trick is to make as many casting fiends that you can so you experiment with different rods. I try to use longest rod that I can without sacrificing form. Now I like 13’-0” – 13’-6” rods. I’d like to hear SurfGirl’s thoughts on this. SurfGirl, how has switching from the 2pc/1pc impacted your form, speed, and distance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
As for myself, I do better with the 11'9". It's easier for me to cast and I get better distance. The 2/1 piece is too much for this girl to handle effectively. It was like the rod was casting me instead of me casting the rod. I had to really work for it. The 11'9" is alot easier to load. Now that I've done this a few years, I probably ought to try the 2/1 again just to see. I haven't really cast it in a long time. I'll take it out this next week and let you know how I do.
One thing about it, the tip is much stiffer than the 11'9". I'll just have to see.

Surfgirl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Some very interesting observations on the information submitted so far.

1. There is no perfect length rod for everybody...it is subjective.

2. Try as many different lengths as possible before you buy.

3. Your needs and requirements will change as your experience levels grow in the sport.

4. Small changes in length can produce significant changes down field for a given user.

5. Length is important but, when combined with the rods action it gives the particular rod its effective overall length so to speak. (a 12' rod in one action may be perfect but effectively too long or short in another action)


OK, we can see length is one of the most important aspects in selecting a rod but it has to be combined with the action and the physical characteristics of the caster. How do we help those entering the sport to decrease the learning curve and select a UK manufactured rod sight unseen (usually) that they can effectively compete with?

If you have ever bought a Zziplex you know exactly what I mean on the term "a purchace in faith". Zziplex posts little information on the specs of their rods. Length is about all we can get information on. The reason for this exercise is to help those that feel "well, I will just go ahead and but brand X's top of the line tournament rod and grow into it". This might never happen. Infact, that rod maybe the worse choice for your specific needs and you will very quickly grow disenchanted with the sport and give it up because the rods length or action may not ever fit your style or physical dimensions.

I am sure there are lots of good surfcasters, or inland bait fisherman who think they would like to enter this game of distance casting. They may dial up sites that show very expensive specialized equipment and there goes the desire because of cost or lack of the knowledge on what they should purchase starting out. We owe these casters the benifit of our experience if we want this sport to grow.

We may need a "formula", as LongRanger suggested, so that we can plug a persons size, strength, weight, and level of casting and suggest actions and lengths that won't handicap the user. Any ideas?????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
No ideas but it'd be great if someone could come up with a formula for me to get a setup I feel comfortable with. Being short and inexperienced I have no ide what I'd be comfortable with. I've never felt comfortable throwing a surf rod in my life. Short of throwing a million rods to compare it would be nice to have a starting point. Are any of you guys(ladies included) les than 5'8"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I personally would not recommend a UK rod to a "beginner". Not only are you talking sight-unseen, but a load of money. When you can reach 700+ with a US made rod, then think about adding the final umph. By then, you might know enough about casting to make some choices to fit your personal needs. When the time comes, talk to people like Roger Mortimore(Rojaway) and Neil McKellow(Black Beard) who know the rods and can give advice. This, of course, is just my .02. The best rod in the world in the hands of a novice is still going to get you novice distances.

Surfgirl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Russ dadds;

My suggestion, is what I did to start at last years Delaware State championships as a first time caster. Prior to going to a competion(and do go just for the experience) get an off the shelf rod of 10 ft. or better(that can still be used for fishing) with a stiff butt(flex the tip to 90 degrees and look to see that it does not flex back any further than about 1/3rd in from the tip) in casting or spinning rigged. Then find an open field to practice casting. Start with an off the ground cast(see"www.neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/otg.htm"), and learn the timing of the release point. that is all you need to worry about until after your first competion where you will learn more, and decided if you want to continue to the more advanced pendulumn cast and competion rods$$.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Ballpark figure for beginning pendulum casters.

Reach in inches * 3 * 0 .7=Rod lenght in inches.
68*3*0.7=142.8"

142.8/12=11.9 feet

Use coasters to hold the reel on the rod to give yourself some adjustment for trial
and error.

Crude but effective.

Blaine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
It seems that we all agree. Here is my off the shelf suggestion for the average Jane or Joe.

Rod = Daiwa Eliminator (12'-0")
Weight = 18.5 ounces complete
Action = soft and very forgiving
Price $49.00 US

I can push this puppy to 525 feet Off the ground and 575 feet using a Pendulum and a 5 ounce bank sinker (actual weight 4.5 ounce). For a low reel position, tape a Fuji guide on the butt. It is a spinner, but a Multiplier (baitcaster/conventional) reel will no problem with the guides. Any average person can load and I have not broken one yet. It is also great for fishing. I take two on every fishing trip for short cast (200-450 feet) and two Breakaway Stingers for longer cast (450 - 600 feet). The Stinger is heavier but for a trained caster to handle. Just my $.02.

PS: Andy Green (900+ feet caster) cut his rod from 13'-0" to 12'-9" and it made a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Interesting thread people. DEcevR, you almost had it with the 'effective' length of a pole. However, the Effective Length of a rod is the straight line distance from tip to lower hand grip when the rod is fully compressed. ie a 14ft soft action rod has a much shorter effective length than a 14ft siff action rod. This is why a 14ft rod from manufacturer A may suit you you very well while the 14ft rod from manufacturer B hopelessly overpowers you.
Many people find that stepping up to a more powerful rod of similar length to the one they are using has the opposite of the desired effect. Reason? they cannot BEND the rod with their current casting style.
If you can't bend it you can't cast it or put another way, a rod is like a longbow, no good until it's nine tenths busted!
Regretably there is no formula for working out the ideal length rod for an given size of caster. Every cast we make is different from the the one before and the one after, there simply is no continuity. BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,387 Posts
Russ in deciding the length of the rod that best suits you is a very open ended question.
Go out and try some different rods or go to a well known rod builder. Ask them what they would recomend for what you are trying to do.
They may tell you what they can do. Also the real difference is not the length, it is the weight and wind resistance of the rod that you feel while casting. Form will come with time and effort, then it will become easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Rod length -How about 22 Feet 8 Inches?

I bought this rod off Ebay.. It's a teleoscopic 7 section. extends 22feet 8 inchs, compacts to 44 inchs. it weighs in at 1.3 pounds (I wear a fishing rod holster belt.. Don't even feel it) It states casting weight is 1/8 to 1 oz. Light action 4-12 pound test.

I mounted a Alvey 500CS reel with 400 yrds of 12 pound . Digital scale now states 3 pounds 3.60 Oz's. I am a old time bait caster, using a 1 oz weighed bobber and minnows. I am casting about 175 -250, with no effort. just under 10 ten times the length of the rod :fishing:

This has got to be the oddest rod on lake erie.. But damn, its working for me.
I tried it on a inland 2.5 acre lake. Who needs a boat, cast to the opposite shoreline and reel across the lake.

Bet if I added more weight and improved the casting technique, this thing would really be throwing high numbers.. On the other side of the coin. the Alvey reel is a one to one ratio.. thats a lot of cranking /work..

One Last Bottom line - the guys were fishing on the dock and not catching much. I was casting far and deeper and catching a lot.. But again I'm a bait caster and I think its not fair to compare to the fake lure folks.

-David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
No ideas but it'd be great if someone could come up with a formula for me to get a setup I feel comfortable with. Being short and inexperienced I have no ide what I'd be comfortable with. I've never felt comfortable throwing a surf rod in my life. Short of throwing a million rods to compare it would be nice to have a starting point. Are any of you guys(ladies included) les than 5'8"?
I have a 10' 1-4oz OM rod that is very easy to cast. With 3oz I can just flick it 80-90yrds using a Blue Yonder. It really is easier to cast than my 13' rods but doesn't get the same distance. If I have been casting the 13's for awhile and then pick up the 10' it's seems so much smaller and quicker handling. Just my observation
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Wow this post in 9 years old, you dug really deep to find this. However, being that in 6'3 i find it that casting a rod over 10' is useless because im already getting way out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Decevr,

You have received some excellent suggestions but the thing that always worked best for me was to actually have several different rods that I can try out. This is not a plug for local casting clubs but that is where I was able to get my hands on any kind of rod available. The casting club members owned them all and were very willing to allow a new caster the experience of using them.

My second thought is to simply attend one of the casting tournaments in your area. Not only will you see some of the same top tournaments rods but it's also a great place to meet people that want to sell some pretty good rods that you get to try out. In addition to the casters, there are usually some rod dealers at these events who welcome people taking a look and casting their latest rods.

If you have more time than money my suggestion would be to connect with a local group of casters and also attend some of the casting events. The door will be opened to you to experience everything from top-to-bottom in rod lengths and quality.

LarryB
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top