Rod Length vs. Distance

2491 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Connman, Jul 22, 2003

foxfirejem

Discussion Starter · Jul 18, 2003

Hi folks. First time on this board, and was wondering. How much difference, given all other factors are equal, would there be in the distance of a cast using a 10' vs. a 12' rod. I just seem to do much better with the 10' rather than a 12' rod. I have used an Ugly Stick M/H, Diawa Eliminater (sp) M/H, Kunan M/H, Okuma Solaris, and the TICA knock off of a G.L.Loomis. With the exception of the Kunan, they all seem very awkward to me.

Does anyone else use a Kunan?? I have a Shimano 6500B Baitrunner on mine, spooled with 30/10 Fireline. This is the only 12' rod that I have used which seems comfortable in all stages of a cast for me. Thanks for any and all comments/suggestions.

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Larry

· #2 · Jul 18, 2003

SHORTER ROD'S--????

This is a good question. I cannot answer about a 10' rod, I am sure that others will chime in; but I do have a picture that Peter Thain sent to me; in which he is in the process of casting a weight; with a 5' piece of (I believe is a metal rod), a low reel and 1 eye at the tip. Total distance was around 500' !!!! :jawdrop: pelican man.

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peter thain

· #3 · Jul 18, 2003

it was a broomstick larry, i borrowed it from the girlfriend

foxfirejem,

its about the length of the rod when its bent more than just the length of the rod. if you have two rods and one is poker stiff at 10' while the other is soft at 15' they both might be the same length when they are bent so they will both cast the same distance. if that length is more than your style and build is comfortable with it wont work for you no matter which rod you use.

its called effective rod length and how much effective rod length you can handle will determine what rod will work best for you. the kunan must bend to about the same effective rod length as you 10' rod which is right for your style and build.

gosh, this is getting technical

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ccc6588

· #4 · Jul 19, 2003

All other things being equal, 12 feet rod should cast longer. The longer arc or width created by the longer rod creates more velocity.

The key to throwing long is eliminating as much frictional force of the line on the spool as possible. This is most important. The other 10% is reducing the friction caused by the guides.

The best reel for casting in my opinion is the Shimano Spheros. The spool offsets as it goes up and down so that you do not get an hourglass pattern on the spool for most reels that lead to greater friction. The Sphero creates a perfectly straight configuration rather than the hourglass shape that the Baitrunner produces.

Always spool to the end (edge) of the spool. A good trick is to spool first with cheap line to about 1/3 -1/2 of capacity. Then spool with ultra thin line (Magna Thin). If you spool to mid way of spool, tremendous amount of friction is created from line to edge of reel and huge percentage of force applied to cast is lost via this frictional loss.

The angle of your reel in relation to your rod is also important. Some reels just do not create a straight configuration for certain rods.

The flex of the rod is important. You can cause a trampoline or rebound effect with the right flex (fishing equivalent to golf's coefficient of restitution). This is actually more pronounced for rods than in golf. Bass Pro used to sell a nice surf rod that took advantage of the rebounding flex tip.

When you want to cast far, try to get the pound you want in ultra thin variety.

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ccc6588

· #5 · Jul 19, 2003

I think your case is very similar to many golfers with drivers. Theoretically, the longer the stick the longer the distance all other things being equal. However, there is also something called swingweight. This may affect ease of handling and you may not be able to handle the 12 feet as easily as the 10 feet rod.

I would suggest a St. Croix which has a light and skinny handle. Bass Pro use to sell a unique handled surf rod for ease of handling.

I would think the 12 feet would eavier leading to loss of velocity of cast compared to the 10 feet. If you had the same weight for 10 and 12 feet, I am sure 12 feet would cast further all other things being equal.

CCC

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longcaster

· #6 · Jul 19, 2003

Official Welcome

Hi "foxfirejem",

At this time I would like to "Officially Welcome" you to the "Distance Casting" forum.

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longcaster

· #7 · Jul 19, 2003

Official Welcome

Hi "ccc6588",

At this time I would like to "Officially Welcome" you to the "Distance Casting" forum.

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LongRanger

· #8 · Jul 19, 2003

All of the above simplified. The effective rod length and tip speed are the keys. It is possible that you can move the shorter rod faster and that is why it casts further in your hands. Assuming the 12’ rod has as longer effective rod length and you learn you move it at the same speed as the 10' rod it will outcast the 10’ rod.

PS: Summer has just begun and already everyone is acting bored. We normally save the heady stuff for winter

. I'm just kidding, its a great question.

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peter thain

· #9 · Jul 19, 2003

ccc6588,

the longer rod will only throw further if you can generate more lead speed with it than a shorter one. if you cant handle the extra rod length you may well cast shorter!

the key to throwing long is generating as much speed in the lead as possible because the faster the lead leaves the tip the further it will go. the line level is as you say also important and for fishing situations should be about 1mm below the lip of the spool on a spinner, any more and you start having problems with bunches of line coming off the spool during the cast.

the best spinner in the uk at the moment is the shimano aero technium, i,ve used it to make my longest ever spinner casts with a best of 801ft in competition. its at least 30ft in front of any other reel we can get.

the angle of the reel to the rod is of little consequence and the rod flex is only important in as far as getting the right effective rod length to move the rod to the best of your abilities. how else would you explain why you can cast different rods and one will cast further than another even though it is shorter?

it comes down to leverage, if you have a rod that has an effective rod length which produces more leverage than you can handle you wont cast as far as you will with a rod who,s effective rod length matches the amount of leverage you can handle.

regards peter

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Connman

· #10 · Jul 21, 2003

Fox fire , the problem is you asked about all things being equal but they are not . Every caster has different abilities and while a longer rod may cast further for some ,it can reduce distance for other as they can't maintain speed/power .If you are smaller a shorter rod may suit you better than a heavier longer rod for example Andy Green (5'7") was casting a primo HST 13'6" but thought he was lossing tip speed .he cut the rod back to 12'9" and proceeded to break 300 yards with the shorter rod . He found the shorter rod more manageable .

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terpfan

· #11 · Jul 22, 2003

did he shortened the butt of the rod, or the tip. i'm using spinning gears only, and i think the distance between the reel seat and the butt of the rod is very important. for a smaller guys the distance should be shorter, so we can generate more speed at the tip. (i guess it depends on the strength of the caster also)

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terpfan

· #12 · Jul 22, 2003

also i heard that shimano aero technium 10000 was being recalled. is this true??? when i finally got my self to spend the money, it was not available. so i settled with daiwa surf basia qd45. (which l like alot, it cast much better than my daiwa emblem xt6000)

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peter thain

· #13 · Jul 22, 2003 (Edited)

he shortened it from the butt terfpan, to get it down to the right effective rod length to produce his best possible performance.

the aero technium was recalled because of a drag problem, in the absence of a baitrunner the carp anglers were loosening the drag so a fish could take line. unfortunately when a fish did come along and took line the drag kept unwinding until the the drag knob fell off! i would have liked to have seen a few of these episodes, i bet they were hilarious

maybe not for the angler at the time but anyone watching must have been falling all over the place with laughter

. anyway the problem has been sorted now and they should be back on sale.

to get the right length between your hands stick the butt into your right armpit then stretch your right arm along the butt the reel should be where your hand falls on the butt. an inch or two longer or shorter might be better for you but use that as a starting point and work away from there until you find what works best for you.

peter

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Connman

· #14 · Jul 22, 2003

Terpfan , the rods we refer to either have sliding reel seats or coasters so you can trim the butt and not end up with a noarrow hand hold on the rod , if you are to do this with a fixed reel seat ,you most likely have to reposition the reel seat to maintain your hand spacing.

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