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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I thought I would ask the opinions of you expert long casters.I have two surf fishing rigs that I use, One is conventional reel that holds 330 yds of 30# mono and the other is spinning tackle. Down here we have to have reels that hold at least 300 yards of line due to the distances to the fish.( sometimes the fish are just inside the third sand bar, which can be an easy 150 yds.) and also due to the running ability of some of our fish. A 40+ lb jack or a 100 lb. Tarpon can peel 150 yds of line before quick can get ready.
My spinning reel will not hold enough mono of the required test .So I spooled it with 30# power Pro.It will hold a little over 300 yds.I use a 40# mono shock leader.
Now for the question.
I have tried several different knots to join the two lines togather.The uni to uni, the albright, and the new " stren knot" discribed it the August SWS mag .
Now for the question
The problem i have is when I put some power in a cast the knot hangs on a guide on the way out and you know what happens then. Another lost rig. This does not happen every time but it happens too often. I guess the loops coming off the reel wrap on one of the eyes of the rod. Im not sure because I cant see it happening. As long i don't put a lot of force in the cast it works ok, but with only moderate distance.Do any of you know of a remedy to this problem with out having to buy new eguipment?
 

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Not much help with the knot, but can't fill the spool up with braid--loops like crazy whenever I try to apply some muscle on a spinning reel. Using a 3/4 full spool and braid causes no problems.

Havn't heard anyone talk about difference in guide sizes on spinners vs casting rods. Would it make more sense to use larger guides to let the knot pass thru easier?
 

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It Sounds Like You Have Multiple Problems!

Hi "THEGAME",

It sounds like you have multiple problems.

Since I can not see the equipment that you are using it is hard to diagnose.

Possible causes:

Guide size too small

Guides of the wrong type

Poor line lay on reel

Spool under-filled

Shock line knot to large
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have an Okuma Epixor 50 ( it is a medium sized spinning reel )with a 10 foot MH Ugly styk Spinning rod.It is spooled with 30# Power pro filled to within less than 1/8 of an inch of the rim. I use a 40# mono shock leader. There is a huge diference in the diameter of the two lines. I use fishing glue on the knot connecting the two line but I cant tell that it makes any difference.
 

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I'm Confused

Hi "THEGAME",

You say that you need to cast a long way and that the fish you catch run a long way after being hooked, but the equipment that you choose to use is not suited for the task. (This is only an observation.)

If I were fishing your area with your requirements, I would use a much longer rod and a reel with a lot more capacity.

Another thing I noticed is that you are using an Ugly Stick Rod which has too soft a tip section. This may also be contributing to the problems that you are experiencing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
poor poeple have poor ways.
I usualy wade out as far as I can before I cast.Sometimes the fish are in the wade gut or the second gut.That does not take as long of a cast.But when they are around the third sandbar it takes a pretty good cast to get there. When i bought the rig mentioned I was just beginning surf fishing. I have caught some pretty awsome fish on that rig though.I just won a reel on ebay that is twice the size of my other spinning reel.I din't knowif you have ever caught a Jack. If you have you will know what I mean about fight.This is a pretty good one ( 40" ) but they get quiet a bit bigger.
 

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TG -

I agree with James that the rod is probably contributing to the problem that you're experiencing. When you really hit a cast hard with spinning gear the tip is going to bounce after the cast is on the way. With a soft tip this oscillation is going to be more pronounced and take longer to dampen out. Polyethylene braid is so soft and limber that it will try to stray outside the cone formed by the guides. A bent rod increases the likelihood that that the line is going to escape the guide cone. If a knot hangs on a guide or the wind is blowing hard and the rod is bent there's a pretty good chance the line will wrap around a guide or the tip and you know well what happens next. Fuji Low Rider guide system is a high dollar solution to the guide/tip wrap problem with braid. Last time I looked, a set of Low Riders will set you back about $90.

Let's assume that you want to continue to use the same rod and reel, here's my suggestion. Forget about the 40# mono shock leader. I've played around with every knot imaginable, including quite a few of my own design, trying to come up with a reliable braid-mono junction. All will hang up in the guides occasionally, if not more frequently. 30# PowerPro tests out stronger than its published strength probably in excess of 35#. So you're really not gaining that much strength with 40# mono. What you are gaining is stretch, but you're going to have to make some trade offs. I'd recommend using a 50-turn Bimini twist at the end of the braid line and then use an offshore swivel knot, a.k.a. cat's paw knot, to attach a swivel. Attach your mono leader to the swivel. Keep the Bimini and obviously the swivel outside the guides at all times. This combination will test out about 90% of the actual strength of the line (a Bimini is not a 100% knot when using braid).

Abrasion is a problem with polyethylene braid lines, so check the portion of the line around the rod tip and under your trigger finger for wear. When either of these areas starts to look fuzzy, cut the damaged portion of the line off and retie your terminal rig. Use a section of bicycle inner tube to protect your trigger finger.

PowerPro is better than some of the competition as far as abrasion is concerned. Of the lines I have tried, Spiderwire Stealth is more resistant to abrasion than PowerPro and also has better knot strength. 20# SS actually tests out at better than 30#, but is is fatter that the published 6# diameter - more like 8 lb. diameter. If you can get enough 30# Stealth on your reel, it might be worth considering. It tests out at 40+ lb., diameter is about 0.013", between 10# and 12# mono.

Hope this helps.
Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
It helps a lot. Gives me some more options. The main reason I use the mono shock leader is because when fighting fish down here they will try there best not to come across sandbars.They will hang up and run back and forth just the other side of the sand bar.As you mentioned Power Pro is not very abrasion resistant and the sand and shells on the sand bar wear through it pretty quickly.That is the main reason I use the mono leader.It withstands abrasion much better.Thanks for the advise.
 

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TG -

If you find that the Bimini-Offshore swivel knot combination doesn't work out because of abrasion problems, try using a heavier braid leader. I'd suggest 65# Spiderwire Stealth, but any braid will work. They carry SS at my local Wal-Mart in 150 yd. spools for under $12. (I'm not affiliated with Pure Fishing or Spiderwire, it's just the best stuff I've tried to date.) Use a 25 turn Albright - the improved version - take an extra wrap around one leg of the leader loop with the tag end of the running line and then tighten the knot well, but don't pull on the tag end of the braid by itself. It will shear off. Leave at least a foot long tag end of the line and leader and do most of the tugging with doubled line and leader. Then finish the tightening process by pulling on the doubled portion of the leader and just the running portion of the line. This knot is about 75% of the actual strength of the line.

I use a couple of 6 to 8 inch long pieces of 1/2 inch PVC pipe with a setion of bicycle inner tube stretched over the the full length of the pipe to tighten braid knots. Just wrap the line around the pipe 5 or 6 times. Polyethylene braid is like piano wire, I just don't trust rubber gloves for this purpose. I have a few cuts in the inner tube that underscore this concern. One of these "braid sticks" also comes in handy if you get hung up and have to break off while fishing.

No knot inside the guides is a completely reliable solution, but using braid instead of mono for your leader will give you a much lower profile knot and should keep the breakoffs to a minimum.

Just another thing to try.

Regards,
Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I had considered using braid of a heavier test for leader but just have not broke down and bought any yet.I guess I will give it a try.
Thanks
 

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Quite honestly, I'd suggest going with a Okuma CD-90 spinner. It holds around 400 yards of twenty pound test mono. Braid is all fine and dandy, but I'm not too fond of it anymore for distance casting. If that's still not enough line for you, then go down to a #12 running line in mono. Sure, you're going to have to fight them longer but a reel will only hold so much line. It also depends on how much lead you are throwing. If you have a #20 running line, you're supposed to to throw no more than 2oz., #30/3oz, etc. I'm not using my heaver right now due to the fact that the fishing is so slow, but in the fall, I'll be spooling up with #15 Big Game and putting on a #50 shock leader, all mono.
 

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TG -

I forgot to mention what to do at the other end of the braid leader. Tie on a swivel, using a Palomar knot, but instead of just a single overhand knot run the end through two, three, maybe even four times. After feeding the loop around the other end of the swivel, wet the knot and pull on the tag end with pliers to snug the loop up tight. If you can’t tighten it, you’ve got too many wraps. Re-tie with fewer wraps, until you can get the loop tightened up fully. This is much stronger than a regular Palomar, uni, improved clinch or any other knot I have tied using braid line. Finally, tie your mono leader to the swivel.

Good luck.
Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Funny you should mention it. i just won an Okuma 90 on ebay yesterday.I'm looking forward to trying some of these suggestions saturday.
thanks for the help
 

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braid vs. mono

I had similiar problems with my spinning set up. I have a TICA 12' and the guides DO NOT make a cone (its sort of strange but I'm told its typical) I wound up using 30# power pro, with 60# power pro shock leader using and Albright knot, tipped with 36" of #50 mono attached by a swivel. This works OK for me with 6 oz. weight on the beach but I'm not sure this will take care of abrasion issues that you may face.

Just be careful to check both power pro sections at and around the knot every 4 or 5 casts. Make sure there is always tension on the line when retrieving. Avoid this set up for lures (frequent cast and retrieve) stick to bait only or you will eventually make a mistake and get tangled or something bad.

I still use mono for frequent cast and retrieve.
 
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