We know that there are several lines that you can get to satisfy the .31 size for 150 gram leads. Gamagatsu 12, big game and suffix 10. What brands and lb test lines meet the .28 limit for the 125 gram class weight???
I understand the importance of measuring the line. I go though alot of practice line and was trying to get an idea of popular lines to practice with. It still amazes me how much expand/shrink mono can go through with an ambient temp change. At the worlds last Oct some of the shock leader that Joe had measured as OK during the summer actually measured undersized. Same spool. I guess that if you had a major temp drop that the line could measure OK on sat and be illegal on sun.
How you measure the line also effects the result . You can not crank a micrometer onto line and ever get a true line diameter , this will flatten the line and under read the true diameter .If using a micrometer ,lock the spindle at the desired diameter either .31mmm or .28mm , then take your line and try and slide thru the opening ,if it slips thru easily it is undersized ,if you have to pull it to get it into the jaws it is over the legal size and good.
A dial calipers uses the same sliding principle as above but i have yet to see a US caster with one.
Well Tommy, after this thread, we still don't have the answer for which .28 Hi-Viz line is READILY available to us!!! Unless we get lucky and come across a "legal" measurement.
I measured the .011", 8# Stren Original Gold at .2794mm, but my (LCD display) micrometer always measured less than Joe Moore's, so it might be a good tournament line.
Same held true when I compared measurements of the Gama G-Power 12# for the .31mm event. My microm was under, but my line was legal per Joe's microm.
A Gama G-Power Spool I have in 10# also measures just shy of legal, so I'm hoping it measures up at the next event.
Cheap practice line we use around here is Tight Line by Bass Pro/Offshore Angler. 1/4lb and 1/2lb spools of their .011", 8# yellow can be had for $4.99 and $9.99 respectively. Plus tax and/or shipping of course.
And who knows, it might measure up!!
If we need to get some legal line from "overseas", I'd go with one of the copolymer formulations. They cast well, and usually measure up to what they say they are. Plus, they are sold with measurements in .mm's, not .in's like mostly over here.
Not much more help, but my plug nickel's worth. Will.
The Gamagatsu line measured by Joe Moore was as Blaine said slightly under the .28 limit and therefore illegal.Since then I have measured several spools of Gamagotsu with Charlie Portaluppi and all were well over .28.I should not have recomended the Gamagatsu line to Tommy without giving him this information. We will be happy to measure any line before a tournament starts.
So Big Will remember we are casters also and looking for that perfect line. You have as much information available to you as we have to us.Help us find the answers.Gamagotsu is measured in mm so the measurements listed can be just as wrong as those measured in inches.Andy [LED]has some good advise and I guess what I am trying to say is the same thing he said."Better safe than sorry." I will be using Gamagatsu .28 line. If that doesn't measure .28 or larger on tournament day I will go with the Gamagotsu .31 for all events until I find something better.In the meantime lets work together and see what is available.
Charlie I know you can't wait to get into this one.
With you all the way, including moving up in line size for tossing a 125g if need be. As have others, been there and done that already with both the past and present line requirements for 150g.
I'm looking for that ever elusive "copolymer" in the right sizes. Gammy might do it if I find a good spool which still measures up after some stretching exercises.
Can tell you this. The Yellow Diawa Tournament from across the pond, which says it's .31, has always measured up to specs or better. Only dislike is how rough it feels between the thumb and finger. Though it usually smooths out after some use.
The essence of my posts concerning this are, "Measure your line".
If you just bought it, and it does not measure, return it from whence it came.
Then try again.
Assume nothing, measure the line, (Your line), or have it measured.
So far the 8# Suffix I've measured is up to par, (Minimum of .28), but I sure would not want to participate in a tournament to find out none of my casts count.
So, if there is any doubt,
Rule #1: Measure the line
Rule #2: Have someone else measure the line.
Rule #3: Repeat rules 1 and 2 in more than 1 spot. Actually, several spots if it is close. The line may not be a uniform diameter throughout.
I'm not trying to be crass here, but the consequences for using undersize line are simply not worth it. Using under size line is cheating, intentional or not on the part of the caster.
Good Points but the single biiggest one is "never take the manufacturers word for it"
Take heed to Blaine's words - Measure and Measure again !! Mono does vary in size acording to tempreture and humidity, we are dealing in an area which probably has the least amount of quality checks. Take a 4oz filler spool, over the complete length (say 1200yds for 15lb) the diamter WILL vary over the entire spool and we are paying how much for the line ??
BigWillJ has a good philosophy in that if you are using line that is over size then you have eliminated 1 of the problems, yes it will affect your distance by only a small amount (maybe as low as 2-3%).
Hey all - this thread brings up another interesting thing - how do we all know if our microms/calipers are calibrated the same? Maybe we could establish a "margin of error" guideline?
Naturally, we each calibrate according to each operating manual's instructions. It's been my experience for my instrument to "indicate" a different (LCD) read-out than other folks get by manually reading theirs. I should add that I've eliminated the way I use mine by having others use it in comparison to how they "read" theirs. Maybe we should establish a line measurement "margin of error", which falls into a safety margin for the line we choose to throw?? It would:
1) establish a standard for everyone,
2) take into account manufacturing differences/tolerances across different spools of the "same" line,
3) take into account different measurements along an identical spool of line, and
4) lend itself to the same level playing field that our current rules do.
Blaine - I understand what you've previously contributed about the need to establish an absolute minimum line diam requirement to make it a level playing field, and I thank you for helping me understand that. What do you, Bob, and others think about a "margin of error" idea?
Summarizing in a different way - if we each purchase a spool of Stren Yellow Original in 8# at the same advertised .011"(~.28mm), a margin of error would allow the "same" line to be used without penalty for minute tolerance or measurement variances (across the same spool OR different spools). If the competitive difference in distance is very low by moving up to the next line size, it makes sense that there is little to no advantage for several different casters to be using the "same" 8# line which might measure within a very small tolerance on either side of .28mm. Nor any sacrifice in safety. Do y'all think there would be very little, almost non-existent, diff/adv if the "same" (.011/.28) line comes in at .2794 to .2951, or some pre-established over/under margin? As important, it appears a margin-of-error rule could be enforced as easily as an absolute minimum diam rule. What's the rest of the casting brethren think?
I should clear this up - it wouldn't matter how much "over" a line measures. I was using an over/under example to point out how little the advantage would be if the same line was measured an infinitesimal amount under.
Bob et al: I find that temp. is a factor. Smaller when cold, larger when warm. If you're measuring Gama 10lb at 30 degrees it probably wont measure over .28 mm. But over 60 and it will. Also it seems like some sections of line arn't as round as others, so you can get a false reading from that and just basically the line is so soft that a very light touch is necessary. You have to ease down on the line and move it a bit and then back off a bit and move the line a bit.
Respectfully Blaine - I thought it would make things LESS difficult for the masses if they didn't have to sort through and measure a bunch of line with a stated (legal) diameter, including the judges, officials and staff. I understand what you're saying. Though it also doesn't seem that difficult, nor that time consuming, for a "judge" to measure the line of those in the winner's circles, or measure that one line which just set a new record. It has to be done no matter what the "minimum" requirement is. If any caster wants to cheat, it ain't gettin' 'em anywhere. If they win or set a record, the line has to be measured at least once anyway. And the pre-set measurement on the judge's instrument could just as well be that margin which accounts for expected (and mostly predictable I would add) manufacturing tolerances, and also individual measuring differences. I think you would agree it's not that difficult, nor that critical, certainly no more time consuming, and would be a big help, and LESS time consuming if the masses didn't have to go thru the search/sort/purge exercise with different lines which are advertised and sold as "legal" for our purposes. Most reputable line manufacturers don't exceed certain tolerances. All I'm saying is, .28 line is .28 line, is .28 line, is .28 line. Pre-set that predictable tolerance level, say .2795 for example, in the rules and the instruments, and nothing changes in your process of measuring. It won't bring into the picture any line which is advertised at less than .28. And it's not as complicated as my post might make it sound.
Bill Halpin is getting some Diawa tournament from Uk for the .28mm class not sure if it is 8 or 10lb rated line will let you know how it measures when we see it .
I use line using same principle as Blaine , go/no go on diameter ,close to the limit but not super critical . I don't care if it is .28 or .285 or .29 .that kind of diameter difference doesn't matter to me and I treat it as a variable in tuning the reel more than ever thinking it may effect distance .
You do have to measure to be safe ,one to make sure not under limit but also don't want a fat line either ,i have measured some stated tournament line that claimed .325mm (old rules line) which measured .37mm ,now that is a big difference and did have a drastic effect on distance.
Who is to say who's caliper or micrometer to measure with at the tournament ,are we all going to show up with certification of accuracy from the Weight and Measures , I usually found Joe's micrometer to be more forgiving than mine.
Play it safe ,get a good cast in and we can sip a few beers at the end of the day ...
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