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against my better judgment i will pull up my waders and slog into this discussion...

Until the day this country ends, nothing will matter more than the constitution. Those old guys had some good ideas. Chief among them was that a) a federal government cannot be trusted and b) a nation cannot endure without a federal government. And we citizens got to choose two of the three branches, with the third being left to pick on the legislature if they passed a law that was against the constitution.

Obamacare was passed by both houses of congress and reviewed by the supreme court. It is law. But here's the great thing about laws that a lot of people don't like (and there's a lot to hate about obamacare): It can be repealed. But that's not what happened: The house of representatives shut down the government by refusing to pass a funding bill unless obamacare had its money removed. Period. That's not a partisan opinion. It's a fact. You can't repeal a law by shutting down the government.

If you want change you need to work through the constitution and change our government to put people in office who will help your life improve, including the repeal of laws that don't work. It's there for the taking and it's up to you to do something about it. Our country will endure. Maybe i'm an idiot, but i have faith that we have the finest country on the planet. Our government is a mess, but it was kind of designed to be a mess. So go to the ballot box and vote for people who will help you and not screw everything up.

And while i'm at it, let me just stir the pot a little. You can't say you want to dissolve a federal government that's about to spend billions on a bridge that your local tax dollars can't afford and then rant about "welfare". I'll leave it to james madison, the father of our constitution from the federalist papers to say it better than i could:

if men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.
amen!!!!!
 

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"Having the supreme court rubber stamp Obamacare " Do you realize how much anger Chief Justice Roberts caused when he cast the deciding vote FOR AHCA and wrote the decision? Remember, he was appointed by G.W.Bush to the court but while waiting for confirmation, Reinquist took a dirt nap and Roberts got moved to the head of the line. "QE/bailouts by the Fed," When did that start? "spying on US citizens," When did THAT start? "undeclared wars" When did that start? "controlling education via "common core" requirements," Catching on to the theme here? When did that start? The common answer to all is the Bush administration!
 

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"Having the supreme court rubber stamp Obamacare " Do you realize how much anger Chief Justice Roberts caused when he cast the deciding vote FOR AHCA and wrote the decision? Remember, he was appointed by G.W.Bush to the court but while waiting for confirmation, Reinquist took a dirt nap and Roberts got moved to the head of the line. "QE/bailouts by the Fed," When did that start? "spying on US citizens," When did THAT start? "undeclared wars" When did that start? "controlling education via "common core" requirements," Catching on to the theme here? When did that start? The common answer to all is the Bush administration!
I agree...if you look at my previous posts in this thread you will see that I put equal blame on both parties. Generally speaking, Obama has done nothing but carry on the failed policies of Bush. There is not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. That's why I vote third party or don't vote at all. My point was that neither party nor the average citizen gives a damn about the Constitution.
 

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Yet another that wants to lay blame on someone else for failed policies , what a damn joke !!! Obama single handily made this monster into what it is and had help from his cronies to do it.. Bush did have failed policies but nothing like the current administration and if the Bum is so great he would have straighten them out his first term..
Now to the third party crap and not voting at all ..You must not care much about the constitution yourself .. Through out history how many third party potentials have gotten in ? The third only takes votes away from people that might have a chance in fixing this mess.. and if you don't vote at all then you don't even have a dog in the fight and shouldn't even throw your two cents in any political conversation .....
 

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Once again...I blame BOTH. Not a fan of Bush or Obama. And I will only support a candidate that respects the Constitution, which is exactly why I usually can't vote for either a Democrat or Republican (with Ron Paul being the exception since he strictly follows the Constitution).
 

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The democratic party is what it is and it will never change, to many misguided young people fill its roster and believe they are helping by giving everything for free.. I guess they have no idea their is no such thing.. The republican party desperately needs overhauling and if they want to rise from the ashes they better get busy.. Both parties have failed the american people and its time for a change but I don't see it coming from the third party. Change needs to sweep across America but as long as Republicans set back and do nothing and the Democrats buy their votes with free living nothing is going to change but only get worse. Mine and your way of life is in jeopardy, let someone like Hillary run the country and our way of life is over. You can forget casting a line from the beach or owning a gun.. You will work to support the ones that won't... The Bum is just the beginning or a stepping stone for something much worse
 

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It would be great to find a person that would take the government by the balls and make changes .. Term Limits, Welfare, Prisons, The Economy, Close The Boarders, Make The US Self Efficient When It Comes To Fuel, Bring Back Industry and so on but you will never see that.. Someone like that isn't wanted in a position of power and that's why carrier politicians need to be removed .. To many of them don't have what's best for America at hand and only worry about who the highest bidder is.. Beach Access is a prime example ! If we had funds like Audubon and Defenders Of Wildlife we wouldn't be marching on closed gates
 

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And for those of you who believe that the insurance companies are trying to rip you off - I'm pretty sure they didn't want into this deal. You see your rates increase because now your carriers have to cover even the sickest of the sickest no matter what, but we're all going to have to pay for that, hence the increase in premium. Insurance companies operate on a principle of adverse selection. It has to do with people who have a greater-than-average exposure to loss generally wanting insurance more than those who have relatively little exposure to do so. Unfortunately the people with pre-existing conditions have a higher exposure to loss; therefor you will have to now have more money to fund the increase in claims that will be caused, not only by people with pre-existing conditions, but people who may not have been buying healthcare prior to Obamacare. There is going to be no medical underwriting either, so the actuaries at the companies have nothing to base their rates on either. Bottom line is that the insurance companies need to raise their rates since they're going to be paying more (and more high paying) claims than ever before. Please don't get me wrong, I am a compassionate person and I sincerely feel for those with pre-existing conditions, but the government forcing companies to accept this is wrong. Feels a little bit socialist to me.
Just wait till the government stays shut down a little longer and more and more people aren't getting paid and people get tired, hungry and default on their loans. Hell, I even asked my son the other day when his field trip to D.C. was this month. Boy, didn't I feel like an idiot when I turned around and my next sentence to my 10 year old was..."Never mind, I forgot the government's shut down". God forbid the US default on it's loans. I'm no genius when it comes to this, but I have seen what happens when other countries have defaulted on loans and it ain't pretty
 

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Coming on time for us to start falling off the grid...Let um default.....
 

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Didn't mean to say that insurance companies operated on the principal of adverse selection. They try to stay away from it.
 

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"Having the supreme court rubber stamp Obamacare " Do you realize how much anger Chief Justice Roberts caused when he cast the deciding vote FOR AHCA and wrote the decision? Remember, he was appointed by G.W.Bush to the court but while waiting for confirmation, Reinquist took a dirt nap and Roberts got moved to the head of the line. "QE/bailouts by the Fed," When did that start? Pennsylvania Central Railroad (1970s), could argue Homeowners Loan Corporation New Deal"spying on US citizens," When did THAT start? Espionage Act (1917) "undeclared wars" When did that start? Quasi-War with France, 1798-1800 "controlling education via "common core" requirements," Catching on to the theme here? When did that start? The common answer to all is the Bush administration!
I give you the last one with Bushy's NCLB nonsense, but theoretically that was part of LBJ's War on Poverty. :)
 

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Other then the national parks and forest being closed can you tell that the government isn't working ? I can't .. Life goes on with or without them and from what I can see we don't need them.. Yes our debts to others may default but their is no since in worrying about that seeing how our country is at a all time low..
 

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Y'all are not gonna win.....AJ and Bill you just as well pull up a chair...:popcorn: :beer:
 

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High insurance rates are because of doctors in general... $5.00 for a aspirin, several thousand for a overnight stay... Went to the doctor one time for a physical.. He wrote out the bill then asked what my insurance was, when I told him I didn't have any he tore up that bill and wrote another for half the price... Now figure in having to give free insurance to those that are living off the tax payers, kids having kids and inmates ....
 

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Man, I'll bet you I heard twenty people today throwing that word "socialism"/"socialist" around. When I ask them to define it outside the banter of political dialogue BS in 21st century America and they can't and I just roll my eyes and walk away, I get called a smart a$$, of course. Marx was dead wrong, and a "mixed economy" does not involve villains or the destruction of capitalism. People need to get beyond those facts and move on. It makes my a$$ tired. :D:D:D
 

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Y'all are not gonna win.....AJ and Bill you just as well pull up a chair...:popcorn: :beer:
Your right ... All I can say is if you support the BUM, Bumcare, and Bum party your a damn fool.. You can kiss everything you have worked for over the years goodby, guns goodby, the constitution goodby and your way of life goodby....
 

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High insurance rates are because of doctors in general... $5.00 for a aspirin, several thousand for a overnight stay... Went to the doctor one time for a physical.. He wrote out the bill then asked what my insurance was, when I told him I didn't have any he tore up that bill and wrote another for half the price... Now figure in having to give free insurance to those that are living off the tax payers, kids having kids and inmates ....
I have heard stories about people going to the ER and saying they'll pay in cash and the bill being much less. That needs to be stopped. Dude, when I was there about two weeks ago at the ER with my wife when they were thinking about a readmit, people were coming into the ER (this is at 4PM when the Urgent Care place is still open) for bee stings and them telling the lady working the desk they are not allergic to bees. This was like three people. Not kidding. This cost gets passed on to everyone else.

One of the hospitals for my wife's illness bill was 432K, btw. In the event of something major like that, insurance is a necessity. People have to have it. It chaps me big time that these politicians want to play politics with this issue. Ticks me right off...

There were three hospitals.
 

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What I encountered happens all the time .. I agree that its wrong and something needs to be done about it but Bumcare isn't it.. You know if its good enough for us but not the trolls in washington, its no good !
 

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Isn't it funny the only people suffering from this "shutdown" are private citizens and/or tourists.........The furloughed gov employees are on "paid vacation", and will not miss a thing when they go back to work and receive back pay. Apparantly there is no one to work at National Parks(hence their closure); however, there are plenty on staff to keep private citizens out, block off parking lots, remove faucet handles, etc. Both parties would like nothing more than to make this a burden on the public(which they have). That way we can all blame the opposing party for it and maybe someone will gain a political advantage... Just more political theatrics that we are forced to buy a ticket to watch. Down right sickening. And I don't even wanna hear about Bush or Obama, neither would p|ss on us if we were all smack dab in the middle of paymasters smoker wrapped in bacon.....They are all out for their own agendas, affiliations, and kickbacks.......
 
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