Newbie question- thread size
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: Newbie question- thread size

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601

    Newbie question- thread size

    What is the difference in thread sizes, which is preferable for a newbie wrapping his first rod. Thanks.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    PierAndSurf.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    509
    Size A thread is small and will make a little tighter wrap. Size D is larger and is quicker and easier to wrap.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    i started with A,but at the time had no idea ther were different sizes.i use A for all decorative wrapping and under wraps, D for guide binding on offshore and heaver rods,doubled up A for guides on smaller saltwater rods and single A for guides on freshwater rods. there are alot of differences in manufactures threads also,gudebrod A is a bit thicker than fishhawk A for example,not a very noticable difference,but a difference,so keep that in mind also.once you chose a brand,try to stay with it for a couple builds till you've figured out the qualities that you're looking for or not,also make sure to use color preseverer on maderia or sulky rayons,they have a coating on them that reacts unfavorably with epoxyies.happy wrapping

  5. Remove Advertisements
    PierAndSurf.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Thanks for the responses. I'm sure it won't be my last question!

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    Sewing machine thread and metallics are treated with silicon oil that repels epoxy. It would be best to stay away from this type of thread/metallic until you gain a little more experience. I recommend using thread and metallic that does not require color preserver. Each manufacturer has a name for this type of thread. It is generally refered to as NCP. NCP is a trademark of Gudebrod, hence the various names. (NCP, Colorfast, Trucolor, Opaque, and others.)

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    actually don,for a newbie i would recommend using CP on any wrap,helps narrow the learning curve by acting as a light adhesive,eliminating the dreaded pattern crawl.i use CP on all thread,NCP or otherwise,to get more consistent colors throughout the pattern and smaller tie offs also,just my .02

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Salisbury, NC
    Posts
    2,077
    Quote Originally Posted by sunburntspike View Post
    actually don,for a newbie i would recommend using CP on any wrap,helps narrow the learning curve by acting as a light adhesive,eliminating the dreaded pattern crawl.i use CP on all thread,NCP or otherwise,to get more consistent colors throughout the pattern and smaller tie offs also,just my .02
    To add to this a little, dont ever ever ever use black NCP it is rarely black after finish is applied it usually turns grey or even a blue color. Finding the right CP can be a real PIA honestly some dont really offer very good color retentions once applied, severely darkening the colors after its applied and dried. Some if applied to think leave a milky look to the wrap when finish is applied. IF your doing a wrap that requires packing dont mix a and d sized threads it will be a packing nightmare. The single most important piece of advice anyone can offer is to TEST, TEST, TEST get a piece of pvc pipe and test cp's epoxies etc...

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    "for a newbie wrapping his first rod."

    Keep it simple as possible until experience is gained.

    Size A thread for under wraps (if used).
    Size D for overwraps.

    NCP blocks bleed through of the blanks color through thread (such as nylon). Bleed through is a greater problem with lighter colored thread.

    As Tacpayne mentions, color preserver has adverse effects when used on black thread. Black nylon thread does not require color preserver to prevent bleed through. A popular combination is black nylon thread with gold trim. No color preserver is required.

    As a first rod, time may be better spent on learning guide and reel seat placement, guide alignment, guide sizes and types.
    Some sources of information are the library of rodbuilding.org and numerous youtube videos.

    Regarding testing, here's the source of tubes that I use. Pultruded fiberglass is lowest priced that I have found.
    http://goodwinds.com/fiberglass/pult...ss-tubing.html

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    unfortunatly i find technique and packing cause more detrimental bleed thru than thread type,not saying there is not a difference,as there are plenty of examples comparing the 2 ,i just find that a well packed and burnished wrap will show negligible differences

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    On his first rod, phillyguy should not have to be concerned with patterns or butt wraps.

    Initially, the concern will probably be guide wraps that are put on with the correct tension and are packed tightly. If this is done correctly, there should be little need to burnish the thread. Poorly done wrapping will result in spaces between the wraps and have the lower layer show through.

    This is entirely different from bleed through. Bleed through occurs when the nylon thread becomes tanslucent due to the application of epoxy. This effect can be used with great results. At an ICAST event several years ago, I saw a bamboo fly rod that used an amber colored silk to hold the guides. The guides looked like they were simply sitting on the bamboo. The amber colored silk (when translucent) tinted the guide feet to match the bamboo. As an experiment, I made my last rod with a metallic copper under wrap and an orange nylon over wrap. The result was that, in the bright light the wraps looked orange. However in the shade, the wraps started to look more candy apple.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    sorry don,misunderstood where you were going

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Wow, that's a lot of info. As DonB said, I'm looking to keep it simple simple simple. At this point I don't enough to ask an intelligent question, but when the kit arrives I'm sure I will. Now I just have to build my wrapper.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by sunburntspike View Post
    sorry don,misunderstood where you were going
    Absolutely no need to apologize. I can't think of anything more misunderstood than the internet. As phillyguy and others develop their skills, they will be lookin to you and your experience for help.

    Mahalo

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    Hey phillyguy,

    I would recommend that you start out exactly as you are doing. Something simple and inexpensive (a kit) and develop resources for your specific needs. This forum, books or DVDs, and publications by manufactures (this could be youtube videoes or published instructions) should help in developing your knowledge base.

    Best wishes on your new career!

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    130
    Phillyguy, I'm not as experienced as most of these guys, but I have wrapped enough rods to learn from my mistakes. I live in Mayfair, so if you want to borrow a book, or need any help just let me know.

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Linden, NC
    Posts
    2,557
    You would be amazed at what an afternoon of having someone help you will do for your learning curve. There are many sources for information, tapping into someone's knowledge in person is priceless. Good luck phillyguy, there will always be someone here to answer any question you have.
    Last edited by Hudak; 01-14-2013 at 11:58 PM. Reason: was absent the day they taught spelling in skool

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by Lickinfrogs View Post
    Phillyguy, I'm not as experienced as most of these guys, but I have wrapped enough rods to learn from my mistakes. I live in Mayfair, so if you want to borrow a book, or need any help just let me know.
    Thanks Lick, I just finished building my wrapper ( I think it came out nice) and I'm sure the questions will come thick and fast when my kit arrives. I bought an American Tackle kit from mudhole.com. For $136 I can't go too far wrong I guess. I'll buy you a beer at Smokeaters sometime and we can talk shop.

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    goldsboro nc
    Posts
    15
    son, these folks are giving you a lot of good info, but keep it simple, first rod one blank one set of guides one handle one color thread. Dark thread regular or ncp. Your origional question was about thread size. For inshore or freshwater use size C. For surf or a boat rod use D. Single wraps one or two coats of finish. Mud Hole has a dvd called rodbuilding 101. You can order it on line or give them a call. I am new to this site but I have been building rods since 1982. E-mail me or send a pm if I can help E.P.

  21. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyguy View Post
    Thanks Lick, I just finished building my wrapper ( I think it came out nice) and I'm sure the questions will come thick and fast when my kit arrives. I bought an American Tackle kit from mudhole.com. For $136 I can't go too far wrong I guess. I'll buy you a beer at Smokeaters sometime and we can talk shop.
    Sounds good to me.

  22. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Ok, time to think about guide layout. The kit included 7 guides plus tip. Seems like one too many for a 10' spinner, yes? Also, the largest guide in the kit is a 30, does that seem reasonable for a standard COF setup or should I get a 40? Thanks.

  23. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Posts
    462
    For casting monofilament, the stripper guide should be about 1/2 the size of your reel's spool. Measure the diameter of your spool's front lip and divide by 2.

    I believe this is covered in the rodbuilding.org library.

  24. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    did the kit come with a chart?if not you can refer to mudholes catalogue or web site for a spacing chart,what i usually do is set up the guides with the chart,i attach the guides with small rubber bands or zip ties,then i put the reel on and string it up.adjust accordingly to your EYE,believe it or not those 2 orbs the good lord gave us are remarkably consistent tools,if it don't look good it probably won't function good.there are some intresting theroies,calculations and systems for setting up a guide train and all have thier purpose,pros and cons ,but the builders eye and the anglers eye will see a badly built rod quicker than a calculator can do the math

  25. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyguy View Post
    Ok, time to think about guide layout. The kit included 7 guides plus tip. Seems like one too many for a 10' spinner, yes? Also, the largest guide in the kit is a 30, does that seem reasonable for a standard COF setup or should I get a 40? Thanks.
    Correction: guides are as follows 40, 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10. I've seen some charts but none specific for larger surf rods.

  26. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    annapolis,KDH
    Posts
    1,510
    this info from a fuji chart for a 10'er-from the tip.......15.5cm..17cm..18cm..21cm..22.5cm..25.5cm..30cm..33cm,i know this is for 8 guides,but its the only chart i found showing a 10' spinner,i would place the guides starting at the 15.5 measurement and add 2cm to each guide down the blank and see if that will work for 7,then adjust according to the line test with the reel

  27. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    philly
    Posts
    601
    Thanks, appreciate the info. I laid out a seven guide setup leaving off the smallest guide and it loads pretty good. Haven't casted it yet tho. I'm curious to see how my setup compares to the measurements you provided, seems like it may be close or at least close enough. thanks again.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •