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Thread: My drum rig after feedback

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltSlinger View Post
    So here is a (mildly stupid) question - what else besides drum will hit these rigs as they sit right on the bottom in the sand? Stripers, cobia, bluefish, sharks? I've often wondered if it is better to get the bait up off the bottom using a pulley rig or something....

    While I'm at it with newbie questions - something else that has puzzled me for awhile...If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...

    They say you can catch more fish with smaller hooks, but if you have a sharp circle, you can get smaller fish. Many a times, while using a 6/0 circle and blood i caught quite a few WP. so with a big hook .

    The benefits of this type of rig is it is used with a fish finder, so it allows the fish time to run with the bait with out feeling the weight of the sinker. And since rockfish and others like to chew and mouth the food its nice. And with circle hooks, it allows you to sit back and let the circle hook do its job and hook in the corner of the mouth and not gut hook. So if surf fishing no hook sets are necessary.

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  3. #27
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    While I'm at it with newbie questions - something else that has puzzled me for awhile...If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...[/QUOTE]

    I'm glad that you asked that question because I asked myself the same question and got a dumb(er) answer.

    Stoopid me, not willing to accept the 'normal' just threaded on an egg weight, put on a bead then tied on a hook. I did put a swivel further on up the line to eventually stop the line from going out. This rig has worked wondermously and allows casting without a length of mono flailing? about, impeding casting distance.

    It's probably listed somewhere with a fancy name. JMHO C2

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltSlinger View Post
    If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...
    I think you understand that the shorter piece of mono eliminates the "helicopter" effect of the bait spinning wildly on a longer leader during the cast.

    My assumption on why to use mono at all is that is gives a little bit of length between the hook itself and the swivel so the fish doesn't feel the hardware when they take the bait - just the piece of bait with the imbedded hook. At least that's what I think is the reason. (?)

    One of the other more experienced guys on here could probably answer it better.

  5. #29
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    That is basically what we up here call a cannonball rig. Good pics and description in the Bible under drum rigs.

    BTW, JMO but 16-20" for stripers is way too long. Even with just bloodworm on it will cut your distance. When I fished SPSP i used a longer 4-6" leader.
    Last edited by Cdog; 01-24-2008 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdog View Post
    That is basically what we up here call a cannonball rig. Good pics and description in the Bible under drum rigs.

    BTW, JMO but 16-20" for stripers is way too long. Even with just bloodworm on it will cut your distance. When I fished SPSP i used a longer 4-6" leader.
    Most Rock are bottom feeders. With too long of a leader you run the risk of the line tangeling if not fowling/impeeding your cast.

    As far as not just attaching the hook to swivel at the end of the line. Well I guess you could. I mean to tie the shock leader directly to the hook might be a problem with the size of the line. the "drum" rig with the fishfinder seems to work for now, well for me atleast. but hey its nice to have other tricks in your tackle box or at least be ready for them, as conditions can change and if the fish are biting on a longer leader, and you only have 2" ones, well you are screwed.

  7. #31
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    Good Post,

    I noticed last spring when I started fishing the cannonball rig some that I caught zero pups on it. No scientific proof or anything, but when I spiked a few rods my longer drum rigs that I mainly use down around Ft. Fisher/Carolina beach where getting tattooed by blues and an occasonial puppy drum while the cannonball rig did not. But the cannonball rig is what most of my larger drum whwere caught on. My personal opinion on why you want at least two inches or so of bite leader or at least use a swivel and a weight versus a carolina rigged egg sinker is to allow the bait to be up above the weight when on the bottom. Fishing the NC's outerbanks you'll find sometimes your weight gets "sanded" in, especially when it's slow and some has occured. by having the bait at least slightly above the weight the weight can get covered with out the bait doing the same. The best thing as mentioned to me is try different rigs and lengths, toss them in the wash and watch what the do.

  8. #32
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    After not having many hits this year at AI (not that many people did anyway ) I started thinking about my bait being in the sand because I do use a cannonball rig. So what I did was to put a 2 inch float between the hook and the FF with the sinker. Still did not catch anything but I was able to get some good distance.

    Also when I toss out the cannonball I reel it until it is tight then set my clicker and drag then I free spool it to let out the tension and then leave it like that after engaging the spool again. It feels like I am allowing some distance between the bait and the sinker when I do this.

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by squalus View Post
    Fingers are fine except for a couple nicks from the hook points when I tugged on them to cinch down the knots.
    I use about 3 - 4" dowel rod to place the hook over and to tug on. Saves the fingers.

  10. #34
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    A couple of suggestions learned the hard way.

    1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.

    2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orest View Post
    I use about 3 - 4" dowel rod to place the hook over and to tug on. Saves the fingers.
    Quote Originally Posted by dingbat View Post
    A couple of suggestions learned the hard way.

    1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.

    2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.
    Great suggestions - thank you.

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingbat View Post
    A couple of suggestions learned the hard way.

    1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.

    2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.
    Concerning item #2 I may have to disagree with you on this on I’ve fish Gamakatsu hook all season long with no problem except for losing them to snags they have stayed sharp all season long.

    Sorry for the disagreement.

  13. #37
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    squalus, your rig looks good. The important part is to make sure you can tie those knots quickly, and well so that you can rig up to match any condition. Although it's important to have pre-tied rigs, sometimes conditions dictate another approach, so one has to be flexible.

    Regarding the topic of circle hooks, I've gotten away from "super sharp" circles and have gone back to the slightly dull... See post below of my personal pet theory from this thread about circle hooks

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaKing View Post
    It's because of the mechanics of a circle hook. If you will imagine the path it takes, from near a fish's throat (fish don't usually chew much after hitting a bait: it's bite and swallow) to the corner of the jaw, all while it's mouth is closed, you'll notice that there's a lot of soft tissue (like the tongue and "cheeks") to get hooked on.

    A sharp, offset circle hook (like a Gami Octo-circle) will snag on the soft tissue and result in a quickly shaken hook-up. This is probably why Gami Octo-circles tend to get fish shaken off in the wash...this is when the forces of the current and gravity are at their strongest on the fish's mouth, therefore the most likely to rip the hook out of the soft tissue.

    The reason a (relatively) small gap, non-offset and slightly dull circle hook is better for the hookup is due to the fact that it can travel the path from the fish's throat to the corner of the jaw without hooking any soft tissue. However, when the hook is pulled tight against the corner of the jaw, the circle hook "snaps" into position on the jaw hinge and gets lodged in the bony area. The bony area of the jaw hinge is very strong, as it is bony, with cartilaginous connective tissue, not soft skin.

    As a side note, I've noticed that a lot of stripers are hooked in lower jaw with circle hooks and cut bait while drum are usually hooked in the corner. I have a theory for this: stripers usually cruise a few feet above the sea floor while drum tend to hug it pretty tight. When a striper picks up a bait on the sea floor (like off of a FF rig), the fish is at an angle, with the head down and the tail up. As it swallows and swims off, it swims forward as it goes back to cruising "altitude", with the leader trailing beneath it as it slides through the sinker slide. The mechanics apply and the hook tends to catch the bottom jaw. A drum's body tends to be fairly parallel to the sea floor, and fairly close, so that when it hits a bait and swims off, the leader is trailing beside it leading to a hook-up in the jaw hinge.

  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyremanjef View Post

    The benefits of this type of rig is it is used with a fish finder, so it allows the fish time to run with the bait with out feeling the weight of the sinker. And since rockfish and others like to chew and mouth the food its nice. And with circle hooks, it allows you to sit back and let the circle hook do its job and hook in the corner of the mouth and not gut hook. So if surf fishing no hook sets are necessary.
    I am new to Saltwater, but how are you supposed to fish with a fishfinder and one of these rigs? Reason I ask is that I am imagining that the line cannot be reeled tight after the cast if the fish is not to feel the weight. The bait would be moved closer to the weight on the bottom the tighter the line is drawn. If the fish strikes the bait, and the line is tight, I would think it would have to feel something.

    So after I cast, do I keep the line a little loose so the bait has more wiggle room on the bottom? Or do you just set the drag extremely loose if the fish is not to feel it? Combination of the two?

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman View Post
    Concerning item #2 I may have to disagree with you on this on I’ve fish Gamakatsu hook all season long with no problem except for losing them to snags they have stayed sharp all season long.

    Sorry for the disagreement.
    No problem. Most likely a difference in one’s definition of sharp.

  16. #40
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    What kind of shock leaders are you all running? I know most people go with 17-25 lb main line but what about from main line down to actual rig?

  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    What kind of shock leaders are you all running? I know most people go with 17-25 lb main line but what about from main line down to actual rig?
    Typical rule of thumb is 10# test per 1 oz of lead. Usually for me 60# is good enough.

  18. #42
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    Just making sure. I did some rod/reel cleaning and prepping (can't you tell I am getting antsy) last night while watching some hockey. I was using 80-lbs mono because it "sounded right" and I was too lazy to look it up. LOL. Sounds like I am good to go.

  19. #43
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    yep Hannibal - you're good to go.

    I currently have 50LB shock leaders on my rigs. They've held up casting 6-8 + bait so far.

    If I start getting break-offs I'll switch to heavier leader material.

  20. #44
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    I started out using 80. Dropped down to 60. Was thinking the other day about dropping to 50.

  21. #45
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    80 is a big knot. I use 50 and have not had a problem.

  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdog View Post
    80 is a big knot. I use 50 and have not had a problem.
    That's why I'm using 50... Cdog told me to...

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