AFAW 13' Surf Testing - Page 2
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Thread: AFAW 13' Surf Testing

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by barty b View Post
    Not really...The physics of it would lend to the theory that the larger loops coming off a spinning reel would tend to do just the opposite of what the photo is showing when the guide is backwards. *AS the larger loops would tend to get thrown around the guide. This being due to the fact that those legs actually act as pre guides to the ring,choking the line down as it goes through the ring.

    How is it, that as they show,the loop coming from the tip section of the rod when the line is on the way OUT?? I can see that loop forming on the REEL side of the guide and getting wrapped as it shows,hence putting the guide on "backwards" would make no sense.

    If it is as they say then why not put ALL the guides on backwards? I mean if it's nessecary for one why not the others,OR like I said,Why not design the stripper guides differently.

    * I have done experimants with Lowrider guides regarding this and the results showed that it is almost physically impossible to get a loop of line to catch on one. So again I ask...WHY BACKWARDS??

    Barty, I had a couple of conventionals built where the builders did the same thing, reversed the first guide, was told it was for the same reason. Asked around and was informed it was more fad and fiction, than anything else. I personally have plenty of standard built rods- and have never hung up on a guide.

    A lot of builders are doing it, so to each his own.


    Basstardo and company- do you get your 3m tape from a builder supply shop- or order it directly? THe stuff I have seen at Home Depot is 2" wide and looks and feels like sandpaper with a tape backing. Just wondering where to get it from.

    HellRhay- on your concept guide placement are you using the math formula to determine the intersect guide placement, or sight of line ?

    Nice post, BTW


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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf Cat View Post
    A lot of builders are doing it, so to each his own.
    I guess that's what it boils down to

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf Cat View Post

    HellRhay- on your concept guide placement are you using the math formula to determine the intersect guide placement, or sight of line ?

    Nice post, BTW

    No concept guide formula or sight of line.
    if i use diamter of spool lip multiplied by 27, the first guide would be way nearer than the fuji recommended of 47inches. when i use line of sight, there's no intersect. the Shimano Spinpower doesn't have an agreesive angle of the spool shaft.

    So i went with the fuji magazine guide palcement and move some a few and did a test cast on all guide configuration.

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  6. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf Cat View Post
    Basstardo and company- do you get your 3m tape from a builder supply shop- or order it directly? THe stuff I have seen at Home Depot is 2" wide and looks and feels like sandpaper with a tape backing. Just wondering where to get it from.
    I just googled it and ordered it from a place I saw on there. It wasn't real expensive. It does feel a bit like sandpaper and is pretty rough on your hands after a while, but someone was telling me you could actually take an iron on a low setting and smooth the bumps down a bit. Haven't tried it myself, but I would imagine it would work.

  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf Cat View Post
    Barty, I had a couple of conventionals built where the builders did the same thing, reversed the first guide, was told it was for the same reason. Asked around and was informed it was more fad and fiction, than anything else. I personally have plenty of standard built rods- and have never hung up on a guide.

    A lot of builders are doing it, so to each his own.


    Basstardo and company- do you get your 3m tape from a builder supply shop- or order it directly? THe stuff I have seen at Home Depot is 2" wide and looks and feels like sandpaper with a tape backing. Just wondering where to get it from.

    HellRhay- on your concept guide placement are you using the math formula to determine the intersect guide placement, or sight of line ?

    Nice post, BTW

    I find it hard to believe that a company like Fuji would recommend that the lowryder striper guide be place backward to create a fad. I don't think it would make any different on a conventional setup but a fixed spool (especially the forward tapered spools) for which the lowryders are designed, has the line leaving off the spool in multipal loops which can tie a knot around the striper guide. I know this as a fact for it has happened to me on a standard placed guide, not a pretty site. But probablity more important is the lost is the performance due to the near misses of having the line wrapping the guide. I would bet the farm, Fuji as high speed images that would back up their placement schema......

    Nice job Hellrhay,,,,

  8. #31
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    Thats what I'm sayin TJ...Would it not make sense to you that the legs on the stripper guide would choke down the loops in the line BEFORE it goes into the ring?? WHY would you want to render that useless..

    Rhay, The build looks good so far bro, I'm not trying to criticize you or your work

  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by barty b View Post
    Thats what I'm sayin TJ...Would it not make sense to you that the legs on the stripper guide would choke down the loops in the line BEFORE it goes into the ring?? WHY would you want to render that useless..

    Rhay, The build looks good so far bro, I'm not trying to criticize you or your work
    Hey Barty , i see want you are saying and if the line was traveling thru the guides at the same speed that it was leaving the spool i would agree with you that the legs would help funnel it down thru the guide.. but when you have more line leaving the fixed spool than is being pulled thru the guides, no amount of funneling will help. especially if the line is the form of these big loops that can wrap around the guide. After the line passes thru the striper guide these big loops are more or less smoothed out and the danger of wraping a guide is much less. Let me hit the ole MM couple more times and it will be perfectly clear! hehehe

  10. #33
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    MM Huh? What Have you stepped up in the world?

    Oh well, I guess if it works for ya,put it backwards, If ya think it looks retarded,put it forwards..To each his own. I guess it doesn't make a difference, The ring size/height stays the same either way.

  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlentz View Post
    That 3M tape is great. I have been using it on all my surf rods for a while. I have not had any trouble at all. Looks better after use than X shrink wrap.

    John
    I have to agree, I have been using a Key Largo for a couple of years that came with the tape like that on it. It doesn't get gunk buildup on it, and whether your hands are dry or wet, you have excellent grip. Thanks for posting the name. I was wondering where I could get it for all my other rods.

  12. #35
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    finally fished one today. Januray 1, 2008.
    2 Jacks (palm size), 1 sakte (28inches from wing to wing) and 2 keeper pompano's.

    The rod cast real well. Fights the fish well also, especially the skate. At least i was able to try it on a hard pulling fish on its first day out.


  13. #36
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    so whens mine coming in the mail.. HHAHAHHA

  14. #37
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    Guide Placement

    First, some history:

    Daiwa and Shimano built their reels with a 4 degree upsweep to make the intersect point at the first and only guide on their Innerline rods,

    Fuji, seeing that the Inerline rods were beating the conventionally guided rods in distance casting, developed the Lowrider System.

    The intersect point, using the 120mm(47.2 inch), the 27 X spool diameter, the cotangent of 4 degrees multiplied by the reel spool spindle height, or the tabletop method for a 4 degree upswept reel are all about the same. This intersect point is the location of the butt guide for the Lowrider System and the third guide for the New Guide System.

    Both systems funnel the line down to running guides to the tip.

    You have to realize that the Lowrider System was designed for distance casting using a fixed spool reel and braid line.

    Braid line works well if allowed to go unimpeded out through the guide. If impeded by any means, it will cause problems.

    A means was required to subdue the thrashings of braid line as it came off the reel and the backwards placed butt guide does this. It emulates the guide on the Innerline rod.

    Fuji experienced cases of braid line wrapping back from the front side of the butt guide and reversed it.

    I know that you can get by with Lowriders with the butt guide in the 'normal' position, but sooner or later, it's going to bite you and it's scissor time.

    I have done extensive testing with the aFAW rod and Lowriders just before I came down here on holiday and I wrapped it conventionally, with conventionaal guides, with braid, with the Lowrider butt guide reversed without any real problems. Braid line is like a snake. It lies around acting normally then will jump up and produce a 'professional overrun', backlash, sluff and other terms not suitable for public consumption.

    My recommendations are: Use braid with Lowriders the way it was intended, With a fixed spool reel, with the butt guide reversed.

    It may be possible that the butt guide is 'normal' and the rest of the guides reversed? Think about it.

    Fuji developed a new guide, positioned it at the intersect point, turned it around and the rest is history.

    BTW, Fuji makes both the LC and LD Lowrider guides.

    The LC is the doublefooted and the LD is the single footed guide. What they did to make theLD was to bend the guide forward about 45 degrees and elongate the eye. You can make your own LDs with a pair of needle nosed pliers.

    I do like to discuss tackle and would appreciate emails at me at [email protected]

    Sorry about the length of the post but this is a subject that can't be simply explained. Thanks for listening. C2

    I will be going home tomorrow(I promise) What's auto theft?
    Last edited by Charlie2; 01-03-2008 at 11:51 AM.

  15. #38
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    C2,
    the Shimano SpinPower Power Aero doesn't intersect with the rod. The spool shaft isn't angled enough to have an intersect point.

    i have field tested different guide placement with regards to my reel and the lowrider, and the best guide palcement based on my field test was first guide at 51inches.

  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by toejam View Post
    I find it hard to believe that a company like Fuji would recommend that the lowryder striper guide be place backward to create a fad. I don't think it would make any different on a conventional setup but a fixed spool (especially the forward tapered spools) for which the lowryders are designed, has the line leaving off the spool in multipal loops which can tie a knot around the striper guide. I know this as a fact for it has happened to me on a standard placed guide, not a pretty site. But probablity more important is the lost is the performance due to the near misses of having the line wrapping the guide. I would bet the farm, Fuji as high speed images that would back up their placement schema......

    Nice job Hellrhay,,,,
    TJ, I didn't mean that Fuji was "trying" to create a fad, they may be justified in doing that with lowriders- but when conventional mono rods were started to be built by others, they thought it would be a good idea to "copy" the lowrider orientation for the first guide- well a fad was inadvertently created.

    Hope that clarifies.


    SC

  17. #40
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    Intersect Point

    Hellrhay

    The 122mm(47.2 inches) is for a 4 degree upsweep reel.

    I was explaining the story behind the Lowrider System which was based on a 4 degree upsweep angle. There are many spinning reels that are horizontal and won't intersect at that point.

    In that case, just use a intersect of about 120mm and eyeball it to see what kind of angle you have. This distance can and will vary based on the brand of reel.

    If your reel comes out to be 51 inches, that's close enough and you should have many happy hours of fishing. C2

  18. #41
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    thanks charlie.

    by any chance are you the same c2 that's a friend of steve austin?

  19. #42
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    what's the total weight of the rod?

  20. #43
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    total weight:
    21.6 ounces

    i didn't know it is this light until you ask for its weight. the blank alone weights 16ounces.

  21. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by basstardo View Post
    I just googled it and ordered it from a place I saw on there. It wasn't real expensive. It does feel a bit like sandpaper and is pretty rough on your hands after a while, but someone was telling me you could actually take an iron on a low setting and smooth the bumps down a bit. Haven't tried it myself, but I would imagine it would work.
    if you are going to get an iron, the 3m tape will change color, and only the bump that you ironed out would change color. so it will look spotty.

    i know it because at the end of my foregrip before i wrap it, i smooth it by tapering it and using heat- melting it rather than using razor to taper it.


    the best solution is to........................................................MAN UP and stop having your hands manicured!!!!

  22. #45
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    so with your reel your looking at 40oz? That's awesome..

    Quote Originally Posted by HellRhaY View Post
    total weight:
    21.6 ounces

    i didn't know it is this light until you ask for its weight. the blank alone weights 16ounces.

  23. #46
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    3M tape

    Boaters World stocks it

  24. #47
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    Kudos to Ray. Lemme study it some more.

  25. #48
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    Hellrhay

    What size guides did you use ?

    Great post by the way !!!!!!

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