MD Rockfish Regulations Finally Out - Page 5
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Thread: MD Rockfish Regulations Finally Out

  1. #101
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by striperone View Post
    Ok heres your answer its called common sense catman which everyone knows your a spot burner to begin with and lentz just an idiot is that blunt enough,heres the answer your waiting on its called common sense you cannot come up with anykind of weight at all on recreational fisherman theres no possable way to regulate that period.so your weight in tons pounds or which ever is in fact bull****.buuuutt the count on commercial is not because it is regulated period.and thanks recreational fisherman you guys most def know the truth thank you for having the common sense to know the difference in facts and bull**** comming out these idiots mouths
    Glad you are back Striperone and thanks for the kind words. I have been missing your insightful posts and also your smooth grammatical flow. Now do you and Surfnsam have any facts, evidence, or observations to back up your positions because you have yet to present any coherent data defending your positions? Please post what you have found, and do a little better than tracker1's use of a post on the menhaden status friom 2008 prior to the caps being put in place.

    John

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  3. #102
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  4. #103
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    Apr 2008
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    severna park maryland
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    Its public record you look it up.

  5. #104
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    Thanks to Omega’s slaughter of approximately 233 million pounds of Chesapeake menhaden each year, the fish can no longer perform their other great ecological mission: being eaten by animals higher up the food chain. The most dramatic effect is on striped bass, the bay’s signature fish.

    The Chesapeake is the world’s principal spawning region for striped bass, but half the stripers in the bay are now diseased with mycobacterial infections. Some scientists now think that the stripers are sick because they are malnourished, and malnourished because they are not getting enough menhaden to eat.

  6. #105
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    LAST JULY, I went out for stripers with Price on his 29-foot Bertram. We sailed into the bay from the four-mile-wide mouth of eastern Maryland’s Choptank River, close to where Price and the previous four generations of his family have always lived. Accompanying us were Joe Boone, an ex-paratrooper who had worked for 27 years as an estuarine biologist in the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, and Jim Uphoff, then the stock assessment coordinator for the DNR’s fisheries service. Having caught or seen hundreds of healthy striped bass in New Jersey and New York, I was horrified by what I saw that night. Except for one, every striper we caught was covered with open red sores, often eating deep into the flesh. The only fish without sores was pathetically skinny.

    The three men were unanimous in targeting the problem. “It’s plain evidence of how critical menhaden are to the health of the striped bass,” Boone said. “Menhaden are the keystone species.” “This is what happens when we use our menhaden as forage for chickens rather than forage for fish,” Uphoff said, adding, “There’s nothing in this bay that can take menhaden’s place.” Boone later told me that in writing about what I had witnessed, “you can’t overemphasize the importance of this fish to the ecology of the entire East Coast.”

    The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commissio

  7. #106
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  8. #107
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    Sep 2005
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    Tracker I really have to ask, do you have any knowledge of the life cycle of the menhaden and any knowledge of fisheries management? From your posts it appears that you do not. I have stated twice and commonsense would dictate that the current state of menhaden is dependent on the coast wide cap that was put in place in 2012. I have asked for you to give me some data that shows since the cap has been put in place but you have produced nothing. This first article is from 2011 one year before the cap was put in place. So again it is irrelevant to the current status of the menhaden. If you had even a simple understanding of the life cycle of the menhaden you would see that menhaden do not reach sexual maturity until age 3. Again if you had any understanding of fisheries science you would expect the beneficial results of the cap to take a couple years to show up. The current data suggests that it is rebounding just as I said I have observed with my own eyes. I have asked to give an example of your own observation of the menhaden stock which you have yet to do. You have not told us why you believe that they are overfished. Without giving us your observation I am lead to believe you think they are over fished because you read it on the internet so it must be true

    I found it odd that instead of posting links like you have been doing you quoted the article so I sensed something fishy was going on so I did a little research. This article was an even weaker attempt at an argument on your part. The article is a Mother Jones article from 2006 six years before the coast wide cap was put in place, again making it completely irrelevant to the current status of the menhaden. Here is the link to the article if anyone would like to read it
    http://www.motherjones.com/environme...enhaden?page=4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker01 View Post
    Thanks to Omega’s slaughter of approximately 233 million pounds of Chesapeake menhaden each year, the fish can no longer perform their other great ecological mission: being eaten by animals higher up the food chain. The most dramatic effect is on striped bass, the bay’s signature fish.

    The Chesapeake is the world’s principal spawning region for striped bass, but half the stripers in the bay are now diseased with mycobacterial infections. Some scientists now think that the stripers are sick because they are malnourished, and malnourished because they are not getting enough menhaden to eat.
    The next quote was another one of your attempts to deceive the reader. Again it is again from the same Mother Jones article pg 5.

    http://www.motherjones.com/environme...enhaden?page=5

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker01 View Post
    LAST JULY, I went out for stripers with Price on his 29-foot Bertram. We sailed into the bay from the four-mile-wide mouth of eastern Maryland’s Choptank River, close to where Price and the previous four generations of his family have always lived. Accompanying us were Joe Boone, an ex-paratrooper who had worked for 27 years as an estuarine biologist in the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, and Jim Uphoff, then the stock assessment coordinator for the DNR’s fisheries service. Having caught or seen hundreds of healthy striped bass in New Jersey and New York, I was horrified by what I saw that night. Except for one, every striper we caught was covered with open red sores, often eating deep into the flesh. The only fish without sores was pathetically skinny.

    The three men were unanimous in targeting the problem. “It’s plain evidence of how critical menhaden are to the health of the striped bass,” Boone said. “Menhaden are the keystone species.” “This is what happens when we use our menhaden as forage for chickens rather than forage for fish,” Uphoff said, adding, “There’s nothing in this bay that can take menhaden’s place.” Boone later told me that in writing about what I had witnessed, “you can’t overemphasize the importance of this fish to the ecology of the entire East Coast.”

    The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commissio
    The thing I found so interesting was that in your quote the last line says The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commision. Were you trying to deceive the reader into thinking that this was the position the ASMFC held? Again since it was from an article in 2006 it is irrelevant to the current status of the menhaden. The thing that gets me is if you are trying to suggest that this is the current position the ASMFC holds it goes against what you said earlier when you said you do not trust the ASMFC. It appears you are trying deceive the reader into thinking that it is the current position the ASMFC holds. As has been shown many times the current position of the ASMFC is that menhaden are not overfished. Do you think the P & S users are that gullible to fall for your dishonest tactics? Most P & S users are smarter than you think and can see through your childish attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfnsam View Post
    Its public record you look it up.
    Why don't you post it here for all to see. And please post the links.

    John

  9. #108
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Baltimore County, Maryland
    Posts
    322
    Ok so a few issues with the data right off the plate,

    "Data and Assessment: The ASMFC Striped Bass Stock Assessment Subcommittee (SB SAS) compiled
    the commercial and recreational catch at age data provided by state agencies (Figure 3, Table 7). Recreational
    landings, length data, and discard estimates were collected by the MRFSS survey and supplemented
    by state voluntary logbook programs as available. Commercial landings and length frequency data were
    collected by states with commercial fisheries (MA, RI, NY, DE, MD, VA, PRFC and NC)."

    They maybe double dipping. I need to dig deeper and see if they offer up the exact numbers they use to make these estimates. the mortality rate they use is a base 8% from Rec fishers. So it's a worse case scenario, I'm ok with that. Anyway on to the data, they use the MRFSS Survey data, which per their website, focuses on coastal cities. This method will give you an extremely high number when it comes to a fish like Rockfish, hell when it comes to any fish, as people in coastal cities will have more chances to fish than the average non coastal person, who make up the BULK of citizens. Huge potential flaws in the data IMO. I'll dig more and type up a better more clear and concise breakdown of the issues later. Work is nuts right now and I have to get back to my data.

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