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Finger_Mullet
10-14-2009, 12:34 PM
I just bought a .40 cal S&W and I need a good personel defense load recommendation.

Any suggestions?

Darin

SmoothLures
10-14-2009, 01:09 PM
Speer Gold Dot.

gonefishin757
10-14-2009, 01:53 PM
Cor Bon best there is.

RuddeDogg
10-14-2009, 03:00 PM
Hornady TAP for me. Yeah it's pricy but it's worth it.

Finger_Mullet
10-14-2009, 05:35 PM
Thanks!!

Ammo is kinda hard to come by in my neck of the woods. I picked up some Federal FMJ today for $14.59. They did not have any hollow points.

I guess I will have to go to another gun shop or Gander Mtn tomorrow. I need to shoot it a little more and I want to shoot what I carry in it to make sure it does not jam.

Our neighbor's house got broke in a couple of weeks ago. His family came home and noticed a pile of their stuff beside the drive way. Then the 2 pricks came out their door with arm loads of more of their stuff. They dropped what they had and hauled ass. They have not been caught.

I figured it could have been bad if they got in the house without the 2 pricks noticing they were home. I have always used a shotgun for home defense. I figure a pistol is easier to carry so I bought one.


Darin

RuddeDogg
10-14-2009, 06:06 PM
Hey Darrin,

A shot gun, especially a pump in my opinion os the best for home defense. You rack that forearm and that's what I call the "attention getter". If they are still there after that, well then shame on them. I have a Mossberg Persuader which is my go to home defense weapon. I use Fiocchi nickel plated 00 buck, low recoil in it. The nicke plating helps the shot stay true and not deform as much when it leaves the muzzle. A .40 cal is a great weapon. I am a big fan of the Hornady TAP ammo. Like I said it's a bit pricy but well worth it.

kirbstyle
10-14-2009, 09:36 PM
I've always run with 155 grain Federal Premium Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point (HSJHP). They've always fired consistently through my pistols.
Currently they sell for about a dollar a round... I know. Ouch...
But I don't want to look back wishing I would've paid the extra $0.28 for that one bullet that could've saved my daughter or wife or neighbor.

Shoot cheaper brass (of the same weight and powder) to make sure your gun runs smooth and to become familiar with your shot placement. Then load up and hope you never have to use those un-Godly expensive rounds for what they were designed for.

Check Sportsmansguide.com

Hope this helps.

Shooter
10-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Yo Finger

As I like to tell folks when buying Personal protection ammo or Carry ammo, buy the best,,, How much is your life worth $10.00 a box or $40.00 a box??
I have spoken with a couple of good NRA trained lawyers (good folks) and as stupid as it sounds it does make sence, if ya do have to shoot someone,,, someone in the court system that has a hard-on against guns can use even the smallest of things against you. A customized gun or even high tech ammo and they can say you were looking to kill someone, just look at what they are carrying.

I am switching my carry ammo to the stuff Bass Pro carries,, It's called "Personal Protection Ammo" and so far the spec's look very good on the stuff.

Now as far as a shotgun, they are great but at the one gun shop I worked at we did a lot of testing and low and behold 00Buck will go right threw sheet rock and kill someone (family or innocent) sleeping in the next room. Ya have to remember one thing, you will not be shooting more than 20' inside your home. You will be amazed at what a 20 gauge loaded with high brass #7 shot will do to someone less than 20' away but yet will not go threw the wall and kill someone sleeping,,, plus if the bad guy lives when he gets to the hospital the doc will take one look at all them pellets, give up and go play golf ;) one more plus is ya can always look at the judge and say "I wasn't trying to kill them, I just shot them with bird shot" :D

Do your own test and get a sheet of sheet rock and stand 10' - 15' - 20' and put some high brass #7s or even #6s and see how tight the shot pattern stays, if you have never done this you will be amazed.

smoldrn
10-14-2009, 11:38 PM
I loaded up on some Speer Lawmen rounds in 357 Sig. Their frangible rounds, but they'll do plenty of damage.

Brook
10-15-2009, 08:55 AM
A shot gun, especially a pump in my opinion os the best for home defense.

No question about it, Ruddedogg. For more than one reason.

I used to consult on this question, and my recommendation had always been for home defense you go to a pawn shop and buy the cheapest pump they have in stock. Then cut the barrel off even with the magazine tube.

You load this, put it in a "combat safe" configuration, and keep it under the bed.

Why does this make sense? The typical person does not want to shoot anyone. They just want him gone. And I guarantee that if it's the middle of the night, and you're in my house where you don't belong, even if you've never been near a shotgun in your life, when I jack that round home you know what the noise is. And you're gone! And if not, I've got five rounds, at close range, to make you wish you had left in a hurry.

What's wrong with a handgun? For the average person, plenty, particularly if, as is common today, they opt for a semi-auto. First off, most people will not take the time to become proficient with the gun. They think that all you need do is point it and pull the trigger---after all, that's what they see on the TV every day.

More important: during a high-stress situation, the first thing you lose is your small motor control. So you'll be fumbling around trying to find the safety while the pond scum does his thing. This is one of the reasons you keep your home-defense shotgun in a combat safe attitude; so you don't have to fumble around with a mechanical safety.

Don't forget, too, that your home defense shotgun is dedicated to that purpose only. It is technically illegal to own a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18 inches. So don't go carrying this one around on a hunting trip.

I have spoken with a couple of good NRA trained lawyers (good folks) and as stupid as it sounds it does make sence, if ya do have to shoot someone.....

In all due respect to their training, Shooter, this is patently incorrect. If you get the wrong judge he's going to rule against you no matter what. If it's a rightous shoot, you'll then win on appeal. All of which, unfortunately, costs a fortune. And it will effect the rest of your life in negative ways even when you win.

But what applies under the law, always, is what's known as the "in gravest extreme" concept. Anyone contemplating a home- or personal-defense firearm had better familiarize themselves with that concept, as it controls when it is legal for you to shoot or not shoot, particularly to shoot fatally.

This is not something you can leave to others. Most cops and lawyers do not understand it, and you can get some pretty piss-poor advice. I still hear, for instance, about chiefs of police who recommend that if you shoot somebody outside the door to drag them into the house, rip your wife's blouse, and then call the cops.

Do that and I guarantee you are going away!

00Buck will go right threw sheet rock and kill someone (family or innocent) sleeping in the next room.

What most people fail to realize is that a load of double ought is the same as emptying the magazine from a .32 caliber handgun. Double ought buck exactly matches the balistics of doing that.

More to the point, at the distances we're talking about, no shot pattern has a chance to open up. At 15-21 feet (which is the typical firefight distance), a shot pattern will only be about 4 inches across. If you hit the intruder you're going to punch a very big hole in the SOB!

However, from a safety point of view, you have to look at retained velocity of the individual pellets. Double ought is, as mentioned, the equal to a .32 bullet. As such, it can easity penetrate sheetrock and continue on. Smaller shot, on the other hand, will have it's energy expended doing the same thing.

My choice is #5 or #6 shot in a home defense shotgun.

Brook
10-15-2009, 09:00 AM
I just bought a .40 cal S&W and I need a good personel defense load recommendation.


Got a question for you, Finger. "Personal defense" connotes a carry gun. Why did you opt for something that big and heavy to lug around all the time?

Don't get me wrong. I understand the sex appeal of the .40. And if I had to carry a gun for a living, it would be high on my list of choices. But I don't understand why any non-professional would want to haul the damn thing around.

AtlantaKing
10-15-2009, 11:20 AM
I just bought a .40 cal S&W and I need a good personel defense load recommendation.


Got a question for you, Finger. "Personal defense" connotes a carry gun. Why did you opt for something that big and heavy to lug around all the time?

Don't get me wrong. I understand the sex appeal of the .40. And if I had to carry a gun for a living, it would be high on my list of choices. But I don't understand why any non-professional would want to haul the damn thing around.

Why not? My usual carry piece is a 1911 in .45 ACP. I carry it because it's thin, carries well, shoots superbly, reliable and accurate. With a properly fitted belt and holster, it's a non-issue. Why trust your life to a "might be good enough" sidearm?

I trust my 1911. Why? Because I've shot it enough to know it inside and out. Because I've taken the time to train with it, drill with it, and carry it properly. Proper training and frequent practice will trump the best load; only rounds on target count ;)

RuddeDogg
10-15-2009, 12:00 PM
When I was body guarding I carried the Beretta Model 96 in .40 cal, and a Glock model 17 9mm as a back up. These were pre ban guns that had the high capacity mags. 11 rds for the 40 and 17 rds for the 9 mm. Like AtlantaKing said, with the right rig weight is not an issue. Like anything else it boils down to personal preference. For me, like AtlantaKing I trained with both, carried both and shot what I carried in both guns.

Finger_Mullet
10-15-2009, 12:39 PM
If I do carry the pistol it will be in a holster on my side. Most of its time will be spent in my truck or beside my bed. Why did I choose the 40 S&W? My buddy had 3 of them and I decided to buy one from him. I shot many of his pistols and like the Smith & Wesson Sigma 40 the best. I shot it the best and found it pretty user friendly. After a few thousand rounds I should feel comfortable with it. If not I will sell it and buy another.

But I bet at this point if someone needed killing I could get it done relatively easy with this firearm. I am not new to guns. I am new to the 40 S&W however.

In my house at pretty much any location I am not very far away from a weapon that I could defend myself with. The basement would be the last place a person would want to endanger my life. And it would probably be the first place a person tries to break in. I do not want to have a problem but I do want to be prepared in case I am ever put in this situation.

I do have a different look on the use of buckshot in my personal defense weapons now. I think I will take out the 4 buck and use a high brass turkey load in #6 shot. With 2 small kids in the house I would not want to fire a load of buckshot thru my house. I would not want to be on the receiving end of #6 at close range. Thanks for the insight!!

We pretty much live on a compound. The road is private and everone that lives on it is family. It is be neighborhood watch to the fullest extent. We rent a house to a young State Trooper. I am hoping to shoot with her some to see if she can teach me anything. I also want to shoot her .357 Sig. I feel safe but woudl like to be prepared in case a fool decides to mess with me or my family.

The breakin the other week made me a little nervous. It was not on our road but it was across from us. What scares me the most is it was during the day and on a Saturday. They guys must have a pile of nerve for such a stunt. And they did not get caught.

Also the home invasions that you hear about on the news would be the worst. If someone decides to break in my house I really hope I am not at home but if I am I feel pretty much protected and comfortable enough to handle the situation.

Thanks for the input guys!!!

Darin

Finger_Mullet
10-15-2009, 03:36 PM
I just bought a box of the Speer Gold Dot. 180 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.

We will see how they shoot this weekend or maybe tonight.

Has anyone saw the shells they are selling marketed for the Judge Handgun?
Walmart had the buckshot and the # 4 shot.

Anyone have the Judge handgun?

Darin

RuddeDogg
10-15-2009, 05:28 PM
Hey Darin,

Ya have a good round in the Gold Dot. It's a good round for what you want.

NTKG
10-16-2009, 10:00 AM
I just bought a box of the Speer Gold Dot. 180 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.

We will see how they shoot this weekend or maybe tonight.

Has anyone saw the shells they are selling marketed for the Judge Handgun?
Walmart had the buckshot and the # 4 shot.

Anyone have the Judge handgun?

Darin


Darin,

you have a very good round, a better round would most likely be the speer gold dot in a 165 for most barrel lengths.

Handgun ammo failure is due almost totally to jacket core seperation. Basically when opening up, the copper jacket seperates from the lead core of the bullet which causes massive energy loss.

Speer and some other manufactures have tried to eliminate this by bonding their bullets. All Gold Dots are bonded, as well as ammo such as Remington Golden Sabre Bonded, Winchester Ranger(LE). Some of the older design ammo has been tested to fail to open when shot through barriers such as clothing, which is a big no no.

Basically any ammo used by LE is good. Gold Dot and Ranger seem to be the go to rounds for most LEA. Gold Dot +P is what I carry. Again the 165 might shoot a little better in most handguns, but the 180 Gold Dot is definatley a great choice.

Finger_Mullet
10-16-2009, 01:31 PM
I got a chance to shoot the gun a little more yesterday after work. I shot 10 fmj rounds thru it at 15 yards. It shot a little to the right. I adjusted the sights a little and it hit dead on.

I moved to the Gold Dots and hit in the same place. I shot 5 of those and the group was about the size of a softball. I felt that was satisfactory for the distance and it being the first time I actually shot the gun more than a few times.

I will shoot it more when I shoot my muzzleloader and rifles to make sure they are still zerod in for deer season.

Darin

Tracker16
10-17-2009, 01:00 PM
I got a chance to shoot the gun a little more yesterday after work. I shot 10 fmj rounds thru it at 15 yards. It shot a little to the right. I adjusted the sights a little and it hit dead on.

I moved to the Gold Dots and hit in the same place. I shot 5 of those and the group was about the size of a softball. I felt that was satisfactory for the distance and it being the first time I actually shot the gun more than a few times.

I will shoot it more when I shoot my muzzleloader and rifles to make sure they are still zerod in for deer season.

Darin

If you really plan to use this gun for self defense you need to practice with it ALL the time. At different distances, behind barriers, loading, unloading, clearing jams, ALL of it. If you should ever need to use it your adrenalin level will be super high and you are gonna probably be scared sh$tless. In an emergency situation your brain and muscles will automatically default to training mode. Make sure there is something up there for your brain to default to..and pray you never need it

kirbstyle
10-21-2009, 08:26 PM
I just bought a box of the Speer Gold Dot. 180 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.

We will see how they shoot this weekend or maybe tonight.

Has anyone saw the shells they are selling marketed for the Judge Handgun?
Walmart had the buckshot and the # 4 shot.

Anyone have the Judge handgun?

Darin
Darin-
I do have the Taurus Judge with the 3" chamber. It accepts two types of bullets/rounds to shoot; .45 long colt, and .410 shotgun shells. The ability to shoot the .410 round allows you to shoot everything from snake shot to buckshot. The .45 long colt round isn't something to look down upon either and it's easy to reload. The drawback for the revolver, well, it's a revolver and a big one at that. Five shots and hopefully you hit your intended target in a stressfull situation or you're looking for more rounds to reload.
I do like mine, just so you know.

Finger_Mullet
10-22-2009, 04:15 PM
I think I saw a video of a guy shooting a Judge. He loaded his with 410 and 45 LC. He alternated them. I was impressed with the damage this guy could do with the .410 and the 45 long colt.

If I had one I think I would carry 410 in the first chamber followed by a 45 long colt. I doubt you will miss with the .410 with 4 shot.

Darin

N topsail fisher
11-04-2009, 05:40 PM
I have the S&W sigma 40 as well. Speer Gold Dot is my go to round for all of my handguns. For the 40 I have 155 gr. and it shoots great. The Gun will tend to jam when using winchester target ammo, but with the good stuff its 100%.

Thats a good felling gun and a great round, you should be just fine.

Al Kai
11-07-2009, 06:27 AM
Hey Darrin,

A shot gun, especially a pump in my opinion os the best for home defense. You rack that forearm and that's what I call the "attention getter". If they are still there after that, well then shame on them. I have a Mossberg Persuader which is my go to home defense weapon. I use Fiocchi nickel plated 00 buck, low recoil in it. The nicke plating helps the shot stay true and not deform as much when it leaves the muzzle. A .40 cal is a great weapon. I am a big fan of the Hornady TAP ammo. Like I said it's a bit pricy but well worth it.

I agree. I have a Mossberg 500 12 guage, 18 and a half inch barrel.
Its my home defense weapon.