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JAM
12-03-2014, 08:32 PM
https://www.facebook.com/JamsAdventures

With all the BS and rule Changes due to a so called FREEZE last winter, I have managed to catch Specks Every time I have Fished for them This Season, from the Beach. The More You Folks keep Buying What the Division Of Marine Fisheries is Selling we are SCREWED. Is it not Amazing how a Speckled Trout can grow to 4 Pounds in Under a Year???? That's Right they can't, so How am I catching Fish that were all Killed Last Winter. Best Season On Beach Specks in the past 4 if not 5 years.

When a Government Agency is Driven by an AGENDA it is Time to Dis-Band that Agency.. Think about it, if there is a Constant STATE Of Emergency that means they have employment. If everything was Peachy they would have no Job. We are 5% of the Population of the World Following BS Size and Creel Regs, when these Fish Have a Limited Life Span. And the rest of the World laughs at us and sells us fish that we are not allowed to catch.

If we do not Catch and Eat them, they will Die anyway, due to predation, or Weather. Why Must this Country Shoot itself in the Foot at every Corner. It's Funny to me that the So Called Problem with Fisheries started about 40 or so years ago, same Time NOAA and the Division of Marine Fisheries was enabled..

I have another Coincidence for you: You all Like to catch Stripers Right???? Along the Beach..... So do I... Funny we have not had a Run of Stripers in 6 years or so along the Beaches of North Carolina.. Do Ya know what Happened 6 years ago, Omega Protein was banned from Catching Menhaden inside the Chesapeake 6 or so years ago.

Here's how that works, Bear with me :::: When they were allowed to catch them inside the Bay, the Stripers would come out of the Bay to Forage for Bait. Usually Around the First of November. Now what happens is the menhaden School up at the Mouth of the Bay, from the James River Bridge on Down. The Stripers will stay with them and eat and eat and eat. All the sudden the Temperature of the Bay Drops out, the Menhaden Leave the Bay In a Mass Exodus, head directly off shore to Find their Thermocline, of course it is Beyond 3 miles, and the Stripers Follow them. From MD to Southern NC the Stripers are @ss Deep by the Millions, but guess what, they are beyond an Invisible, Make Believe Line in the Water, and we are not allowed to catch them. Not only that but the Coast Guard and NOAA Fly AC 130's and Patrol that Invisible Line in the Ocean at a Cost of Millions to us the Taxpayer.. BTW they will bust you even if you are playing catch and release with them, or if you are fishing for say BlueFish and Happen to Catch a Striper. The Environmentalist Have weaseled there way Into Fisheries Management, ad Convinced Some of you that there is a Major Problem, when NONE Exists.. Wait till they sell all of the Catch Shares to Walmart, and they are the only ones allowed to fish and sell it.. Why do you think they are running the Comm Fisherman out of Business.. Watch and see...

Anyways I went back to fishing by Grampa's Rules Long ago....Well thats my Story and I am sticking to it...

JAM

drumchaser
12-03-2014, 09:16 PM
Oh how I miss those striper blitzes. And I agree, way to many trout around for the freeze excuse to hold any water.

BaitWaster
12-03-2014, 09:27 PM
Guessed they weren't whacked all winter, spring and they grew. :)

Freeze was relatively isolated so maybe a little too reactive but sounds like something worked. Hope to experience it in a couple of days.

A bit too early to bear result but going from 12" to 14" allows essential all the trout a year or two to spawn. And they spawn multiple times beginning in May.

JAM
12-03-2014, 10:44 PM
Never Killed any 12's or 14's for that matter.. 18 n up for me.. 4 is a Joke and meant to put Guides out of Business, cause they have the Comms on the ropes/ Once the Comms and the Guides are gone, its on to the Recs. With one a day limits recs will lose interest, and then it's on to Catch Shares with no opposition... No Problem to begin with Worked... Natural Cycles.. Models are just UN-Educated Guesses.. If you do not know the number of them Guessing does not help anything.. Just like the American Red Snapper Closing.. It's an Insult to People who Fish. All of NOAA and all the DMF's need a Change in all Members of all boards.. Environmentalists Need Not apply..The whole thing is a JOKE, and a Bad one at that. I remember seeing a video put out by the Rhode Island Watermen, where they Blanketed a NOAA Boat, i n a fog bank that was being used to get Model Numbers, in an actual Fishing Vessel. The FV out fished the NOAA boat 500 to 1. The NOAA boat had 1. Wrong Mesh Net. 2. Too Much Horse Power for the Net and bridle they were fishing. 3. No experience Fishermen on board. If all Models are constructed the same way, there is an AGENDA.. Un Opposed Catch Shares.. Watch and see. I have not been Wrong about anything they have done yet.. Including the Beach Closures, now here, and soon to be In Cape Lookout, Core Banks, Portsmouth Island. Then Padre Texas. I Called all of that 10 years ago, and folks said I call when ya get into town, we will catch a few together.... JAM

kurazy kracka
12-04-2014, 10:52 AM
how do you think its shaping up for fishing the first week of January?

Trout, pups, possible rock? Tempted to come down there for NYE

JAM
12-04-2014, 02:08 PM
If we continue to have just regular weather systems and no hard blows very well for the pups and trout.. Stripers will not return here under the current laws not allowing omega to menhaden fish in the bay... Honestly I can only Guarantee that there will be no Stripers, too far out on the Trout and pups are always here... JAM

kurazy kracka
12-04-2014, 03:01 PM
If we continue to have just regular weather systems and no hard blows very well for the pups and trout.. Stripers will not return here under the current laws not allowing omega to menhaden fish in the bay... Honestly I can only Guarantee that there will be no Stripers, too far out on the Trout and pups are always here... JAM

that's about what I figured esp on the stripers, sad day for those poor fish and the big blues that used to hit the surf. it'd be nice if someone just destroyed omega completely.

JAM
12-04-2014, 04:11 PM
Kurazy Kracka no we need omega to fish re-read u missed it....

Lipyourown
12-04-2014, 04:21 PM
Omega still fishes in the Chesapeake and the major shortage of Menhaden schools existed long before the stripers recovered.

JAM
12-04-2014, 06:52 PM
Menhaden live for 3 years. I have never had a Problem in the 12 years I have worked in Bait and Tackle Shops getting it Fresh.. So I do not buy into the Shortage of menhaden.. Best King Mackerel season we have had in years, King Macks = Live Bait in the water. We are being Bamboozled left and right I Believe... JMHO JAM

kurazy kracka
12-04-2014, 08:09 PM
They do fish the bay but why would you want them to even harder?

Lipyourown
12-04-2014, 09:25 PM
I can't speak for your neck of the woods but I can tell you that bald eagles are more common than bunker schools in my neck of the woods. A complete flip flop from the 70s when I grew up.

BaitWaster
12-04-2014, 10:19 PM
Jam, all the 11-13" specks are in Morehead City in the usual places. Don't ask me how I know. ;)

As for bunker/shad/pogies, should have been a bump when Beaufort Industries shut down in Beaufort. NC landings went from 50-70 million pounds a year to 1/2 million. Lots of shad off Morehead right now and bluefins were chewing on them the first of the week. Several 100+" landed.

Drumdum
12-05-2014, 07:21 AM
Menhaden live for 3 years. I have never had a Problem in the 12 years I have worked in Bait and Tackle Shops getting it Fresh.. So I do not buy into the Shortage of menhaden.. Best King Mackerel season we have had in years, King Macks = Live Bait in the water. We are being Bamboozled left and right I Believe... JMHO JAM

Not trying to be contradictory here,BUT... Jam,you weren't here at the time,although I can remember schools of menhaden so big you could have almost walked on them.. Can remember the schools of drum under them,as well as kings skying through them.. As you said,they only live 3yrs,so they should have cycled back,no?? As far as tackle shops getting fresh,I have seen where you could get fatback at anytime.. We used fatback that were hard enough to drive nails with them... Nowadays,I've seen many empty coolers,of fatback that were so old they'd melt in your hands.. Can also remember fleets of pogie boats coming in during several epic drum blitzes,and walla NO MORE DRUM TO BE CAUGHT THE REST OF THE SEASON.. What happened back in the 60's when there were plenty of stripers being caught in the surf?? Omega was NOT on the scale of catching back then that it is now,and there were plenty of stripers.. As far as kings,they eat on the schools of croakers,hairyheads,ect,no need for them to have fatback,although that is one of their main courses.. When the stripers were plentiful back in the sixties,you didn't have the schools of big grey trout,and bluefish in the bay.. Grey trout,as I understand it are slowly making a comeback in the bay,and rockfish are on the decline.. imho,they are cyclic and that is why you aren't seeing them as much here.. ALTHOUGH,with fatback you have schools of bait for them to follow,and with OMEGA they get wiped slick.. Have said this before and will say again,management of OMEGA has been terrible.. If they were to allow fishing for one year,close for the next it would allow those fish to comeback..

jay b
12-05-2014, 10:24 AM
Menhaden don't reproduce until they're three years old. They don't leave the bay until they're three years old. Why in the He!! would you allow Omega to take them from the bay (as they still do) knowing that ?? Every state on the easy coast used to allow the reduction fleet to take Menhaden in their waters now it's only the greedy morons in the state of Virginia that allow it so states like North Carolina have a better stock. They use the fish to make cat food and Omega 3 protein pills and that stuff can be made from other sources like soy beans. The fish are easy to catch so they keep paying the politicians to let them do it. If they really want to keep doing that then fine but kick them out of the bay which does quite a few good things like 1) leaves a forage for all the game fish to feed on, 2) allows the Menhaden to do their God given duty and filter the dirty water and 3) become sexually mature so they can reproduce.

If they are that important as a food source or feel-good liver pill source then all they have to do is go out into the ocean and get them and simply raise the price to account for the additional fuel cost. Ask the state of Florida about how their fishing improved after they banned netting within a three mile limit of their coast and take some time to read the book about the Menhaden reduction fleet called "The most important Fish in the sea"

My $ 0.02

hifishing
12-05-2014, 04:42 PM
JAM,

Have to disagree with you on this one. Menhaden are the keys to water quality, forage base, and many other things are far less abundant than they used to be. I remember as a kid in the 80s with bunker being driven high and dry by school after school of chopper bluefish. Seemed like those fish were around most of the winter with it kicking off around thanksgiving. Right about the time the bass were recovering, the bluefish were declining, then the early 2000s on the obx in the winter had bait and bass. We probably experienced the best striped bass fishing for a long time, and without the bait there is no way the bass/blues will come down the beach. And as far as weakfish go, when was the last time any of us caught a 40" tiderunner? No shock there is a moratorium for them, even though there are quite a few schools of squeteagues ( juive weaks) , there is little to no adult population. Seems when we have lots of bass we don't have too many weaks, cause the 80s and 90s were great for them. Lots of fish are cyclic and the dynamics of it all is crazy. This is not just a nc/va thing as the fish have tails and don't spend their whole life in the same waters. There are greater implications to the ecosystem with less bunker in the water. Historically bunker made up 90% or more of a striped bass's diet. As the bunker population has gone down, so has the length to weight to ration for striped bass, maybe even red drum, it would be worth a look into. Basically this means that a 48" bass in 1978 would weigh more than one of the same length today. As the % of menhaden as a % of striped bass diet has gone, predation of other species has gone up, like blue crab, juvienelle weakfish, oysters, ect ect ect. Seeing as striped bass and red drum inhabitat some of the same waters sometimes at the same time, this should cause concern for all of us. Maybe the drum need more bunker to chew on...how bout cobia, kings, specks, ect that prey on menhaden? Have to agree that the bunker could be taken care of better nowadays as well. Doesn't last near as long and the flesh gets awfully mushy awful quick, and yes I take care of my bait cooler...

Think of the fall drum run we could have if there were schools of bunker following the cobbs. It would probably keep the beach consistent into early dec when Maybe just maybe the bluefish/bass would come down the beach to feed instead of hightailing it 20-50 miles offshore. Fishing could only get better and better if there were more bunker in the water. This spring on the point we had some bunker around, nothing turn the water black/you could walk on them, but a few and I doubt very much the fishing would had been that great without them there, it all came together this spring for sure, consistent weather/winds, bait and fish. We can only hope for a repeat, but with more bunker...and of course more drum:D

JAM
12-05-2014, 05:29 PM
Best Fall Drum Fishing I have ever Witnessed.
Grey Trout in The Surf with Specks.. Caught a dozen Greys last week in one setting..
Best King Macks in 7 years.
Had some hundred Fish Days with Clients on Grey Trout to 24 inches.
Best Trout Fishing I have seen in 5 years, even if it stopped Tomorrow.
You have Red Drum up the Potomac River all the way to DC..
Crabs up to 165 dollars a bushel in MD (cause Drum been eating them)
Cobia as far north as Jersey this summer.
Earliest BlueFin Bite in a Decade..

These fish have to be eating Something........

Everyones got a hardon for Omega, there used to be lots of others fishing for menhaden, but omega put them out of Business.. Personally I put the Blame on Over Development all along the Chesapeake Bay. Run off From all the Mansions and Golf Courses.. I will not point my Finger at another Fisherman, cause the CCA says so. Bunker Breed in the Bazillions and have a Life expectancy of Three Years. if they do not catch them, they will just die. They have reduced the metric tonnage for the Bunker fishing across the Board big time. Again I refuse more Bunker then I take at the Tackle Shop.. Its all good fella's I do not expect everyone to agree with me all the time. But I do have access to some of the Best Biologists on the Planet, And I am basically Parroting what they have been telling me, and they have proven their point to me. I am not smart enough to make this up on my own but I am a Good Listerner. Cycles and over Development, not Over-fishing..

They NOAA/DMF's are using the Rules and Regs and made up emergencies to get everyone they possible can out of Fishing, then with no one left to fight them when Catch Shares go into affect, and Walmart can then Buy all of the Catch Shares up with no competition with the help of the Pew Foundation.

Here is another MIND Blower For ya, Guess who is Bidding against the Folks that have been Running the Oregon Inlet Fishing Center for the Past 40 + Years, the AUDUBON... http://www.islandfreepress.org/2014Archives/11.25.2014-DisputeLeavesOregonInletFishingCenterLeaseUpInTheAir.html

JAM

hifishing
12-05-2014, 06:50 PM
You switch to the planks? I know the planks have been good this fall, but IMHO this is NOT the best fall bite if you are a flea. The early season flat beach bite was meh, with all the shenanigans the point and no night access, and the wrong conditions for a north beach bite all but for a few days in oct/nov it was overall meh

There is no single thing to point at for why we are where we are. Mismanagement of the fisheries, runoff/pollution, overfishing, underfishing, habitat quality, poor fishing practices, waste, habitat degradation, lack of access, it all contributes, but omega contributes quite a but IMHO

There is no where near the amount of bunker say even ten years ago. It doesn't take a degree in marine biology to see what is going on.

It is nice to see Audubon going after someone else besides the beach guys...maybe they can go after teaches, Hatteras harbor, pirates cove, after they get Oregon inlet

JAM
12-05-2014, 09:37 PM
You switch to the planks? I know the planks have been good this fall, but IMHO this is NOT the best fall bite if you are a flea. The early season flat beach bite was meh, with all the shenanigans the point and no night access, and the wrong conditions for a north beach bite all but for a few days in oct/nov it was overall meh

There is no where near the amount of bunker say even ten years ago. It doesn't take a degree in marine biology to see what is going on.

It is nice to see Audubon going after someone else besides the beach guys...maybe they can go after teaches, Hatteras harbor, pirates cove, after they get Oregon inlet

Nope I'm Not a Planker, and I no longer Drum Fish from the Beach, because of Access, and the lack there of. If you can not Fish at Night there is no sense in Drum Fishing. I Kayak Fish and Run a Guide Service and I work at Teaches Lair Marina, Roost Bait and Tackle and pretty much hear of all Fish Caught on this Island... I am not here to Argue with you or anyone, I just state FACTS that are not generated by the CCA. With the 11 Bait related Points I have made above: How can all those things be true, If there were no Bait in the Water?? Heck I have a good Friend of mine who is approaching 80 Citation Drum This Year, he might have passed it. That's one person.

Best NCBBA Red Drum Tournament in the last 7 Years..
Best Cape Hatteras Anglers Club Tournament in 7 years..

Lack of Access has nothing to do with Bait in the Water. The Folks that were walking out to the Point and staying over night Caught and Caught Big. I had a few customers catch 30 and 40 Citation Fish in a Week. PS they are Still catching Drum out there as I type.. I listed 9 Facts above (all Bait related) and 2 more here.. Bait Related..

What do you expect Discovery Magazine to say, they are funded By the Pew Foundation and are an Environmentalists Play Ground full of Audubon Members and the Likes. Omega has been around for over 100 years, you know what hasn't been around for 100 years???? Mansions and Golf Course's and Pig Farms all along the Chesapeake and it tributaries..

I have lived here full Time for 12 years, same amount of Bunker if not more, no it doesn't take a Degree, but hifishing do you live here?? What is you 10 year statement based on? My Statements are based on Working in the Bait and Tackle Business Daily for the Last 12 years, 7 of them connected to a Fish House, where I see the Trip Tickets and Fish Landing Reports on a Daily Basis. Whats Going on is the Brainwashing and Kool-Aid Drinking of lots of Folks by the CCA. Getting the Recreational Fishermen to Hate the Commercial Fishermen when we should be banding together to Fight the BS. If Comm, Rec and Sport banded together, they would be the Largest Lobby In DC. The CCA does not want that cause they want more for them and Less for someone else. Ya see there are NO RULES, if you just practice Catch and Release. There a No Size Limits, No creel limits and No rules to Follow if you practice CnR.

No worries about Audubon getting Teaches Lair, The Harbor and Pirates Cove. Thanks for the Concern for me and MY neighbors that rely on those places to earn a living.. Maybe they will go after your place of employment or one of your families place of employment next, I am sure I will show you the same concern that you have shown my neighbors and myself here in this post. We are all PRIVATE PROPERTY, where Oregon Inlet is OWNED by the NPS. The Reason they are now going after the Oregon Inlet Fishing Center is they WON the Battle of the Beach. The Only Place I want to see the Audubon, CCA, SELC, and DOW go, is to Hell. Why would you want to see them HURT other Fishermen and their Lively Hoods?

To me that's Smells of Sour Grapes, and is more of that CCA more for me and less for you drivel which actually caused the Beach Fight to be lost. By Pissing off the Comms a long time ago, by getting them Blocked from Fishing certain portions of the Beach, when we asked for their Help, they Laughed at us. Divide and Conquer, and Most Rec's are playing right into their hands.. Again I am not here to Argue, just to state my Point of View and Facts.

Did you know that ONE ADULT Female Menhaden produces 362,000 eggs? The Entire Atlantic Fisheries Quota is 170,800 Metric Tons with Virginia allocated 85 percent of that. The menhaden fishery is one the of most selective, and effective fisheries, with a small by-catch. Atlantic croaker is the principal species caught as by-catch and is considered insignificant.

JAM

js1172
12-05-2014, 09:50 PM
Jam has it togather, great and informative post Jam, I commend you! Hope my next trip to the island we get a chance to talk
js

KB Spot Chaser
12-05-2014, 10:15 PM
How many months out of this year was large mesh gill netting closed. Yes it has been a good year but in no way are we close to having a trophy fishery, 18-20 in. trout imo still dinks.

hifishing
12-06-2014, 12:10 AM
JAM,

Not trying to argue either. All that can be true because menhaden are not the only "bait" out there. I know that a few guys are having the drum year of their life as well, but then again some of those guys live there, and fish hard and catch even harder. I applaud those guys who are able to put the time, effort, and sacrifices they do to put up the numbers that they do. I may take a walk or two in the spring but not in the fall... and with the snags, shenanigans, and lack of nighttime access this fall it wasn't worth the hike to me, but to each is own.

NCBBA Tourn...any time you put 250 guys from 23-38 in Oct on the best real estate fish will be caught...
CHAC-a bunch of guys fishing stations on nice real estate...fish will be caught...

No I don't live there and no I don't spend everyday out there on the water but I find it hard to believe the bunker population is ok. The 10 year comment is relative to bass and bunker back in the early to mid 2000s. Many a blitzes on the north beach back then and those fish were on bunker. Its nice you have the figures for menhaden fecundity, but did you know the statistical catch at age has been consistently going down? The tonnage is the same but the amount of fish caught is higher. I have no problem with commercial fishing, but I do have a problem with a public resource being exploited by one company for financial gain when they are clearly much more valuable if they were left in the water to be a filter feed and forage base. I don't have a problem with the bait fishery because it is sustainable, the reduction fishery needs reigning in to be sustainable, I would personally like to see Omega go the way of the dodo. Its been proven they have not cared for the resource, time for VMRC to take control from the VA general assembly.

As far as my comment on Audubon coming for OIFC, teaches ect... I have been run off of too many beaches from the likes of them and their ilk...and its just nice to see them coming for someone other than the beach people for a change, try not to take it personally. If it were the harbor in Ptown Cape Cod I would feel the same way, not really sour grapes just happened in close to home this time. You did choose to live on an island dependent on tourism and fishing money correct? That's one of the tradeoffs of living on the island, always has been that way, but the NPS has made it clear you/me/islanders/visitors are not wanted. How long did people really think the NPS was going to wait before going after OIFC? There is a lot of $ the NPS wants to get their hands on, not just in the way of ORV passes and lighthouse climbs...

Drumdum
12-06-2014, 09:40 AM
Nope I'm Not a Planker, and I no longer Drum Fish from the Beach, because of Access, and the lack there of. If you can not Fish at Night there is no sense in Drum Fishing. I Kayak Fish and Run a Guide Service and I work at Teaches Lair Marina, Roost Bait and Tackle and pretty much hear of all Fish Caught on this Island... I am not here to Argue with you or anyone, I just state FACTS that are not generated by the CCA. With the 11 Bait related Points I have made above: How can all those things be true, If there were no Bait in the Water?? Heck I have a good Friend of mine who is approaching 80 Citation Drum This Year, he might have passed it. That's one person.

Best NCBBA Red Drum Tournament in the last 7 Years..
Best Cape Hatteras Anglers Club Tournament in 7 years..

Lack of Access has nothing to do with Bait in the Water. The Folks that were walking out to the Point and staying over night Caught and Caught Big. I had a few customers catch 30 and 40 Citation Fish in a Week. PS they are Still catching Drum out there as I type.. I listed 9 Facts above (all Bait related) and 2 more here.. Bait Related..

What do you expect Discovery Magazine to say, they are funded By the Pew Foundation and are an Environmentalists Play Ground full of Audubon Members and the Likes. Omega has been around for over 100 years, you know what hasn't been around for 100 years???? Mansions and Golf Course's and Pig Farms all along the Chesapeake and it tributaries..

I have lived here full Time for 12 years, same amount of Bunker if not more, no it doesn't take a Degree, but hifishing do you live here?? What is you 10 year statement based on? My Statements are based on Working in the Bait and Tackle Business Daily for the Last 12 years, 7 of them connected to a Fish House, where I see the Trip Tickets and Fish Landing Reports on a Daily Basis. Whats Going on is the Brainwashing and Kool-Aid Drinking of lots of Folks by the CCA. Getting the Recreational Fishermen to Hate the Commercial Fishermen when we should be banding together to Fight the BS. If Comm, Rec and Sport banded together, they would be the Largest Lobby In DC. The CCA does not want that cause they want more for them and Less for someone else. Ya see there are NO RULES, if you just practice Catch and Release. There a No Size Limits, No creel limits and No rules to Follow if you practice CnR.

No worries about Audubon getting Teaches Lair, The Harbor and Pirates Cove. Thanks for the Concern for me and MY neighbors that rely on those places to earn a living.. Maybe they will go after your place of employment or one of your families place of employment next, I am sure I will show you the same concern that you have shown my neighbors and myself here in this post. We are all PRIVATE PROPERTY, where Oregon Inlet is OWNED by the NPS. The Reason they are now going after the Oregon Inlet Fishing Center is they WON the Battle of the Beach. The Only Place I want to see the Audubon, CCA, SELC, and DOW go, is to Hell. Why would you want to see them HURT other Fishermen and their Lively Hoods?

To me that's Smells of Sour Grapes, and is more of that CCA more for me and less for you drivel which actually caused the Beach Fight to be lost. By Pissing off the Comms a long time ago, by getting them Blocked from Fishing certain portions of the Beach, when we asked for their Help, they Laughed at us. Divide and Conquer, and Most Rec's are playing right into their hands.. Again I am not here to Argue, just to state my Point of View and Facts.

Did you know that ONE ADULT Female Menhaden produces 362,000 eggs? The Entire Atlantic Fisheries Quota is 170,800 Metric Tons with Virginia allocated 85 percent of that. The menhaden fishery is one the of most selective, and effective fisheries, with a small by-catch. Atlantic croaker is the principal species caught as by-catch and is considered insignificant.

JAM

Jam,there are more drum now that I have seen in 40yrs of fishing for them..!! Fatback,not so much,although this year was a "bit better".. You evidently never saw fatback when they were HERE.. If you had you would understand what I'm saying about walking across the schools...You say fatback have been harvested for 100yrs,yes they have,but the technology and the amount of boats have put the hurts on a fish that can reproduce quickly if managed properly.. Don't want to see them shut down,just under the thumb of someone besides politicians in VA that could care less about the fishery if it doesn't promote their interest.. Got one better than Lee,Nick caught that many in the spring and now is up to 128 FOR THE YEAR!! :D Yes,best drumfishing I've seen in 40yrs,beach and pier!!! Not arguing many of the points you are making,ESPECIALLY about the cca and Audubon taking over OI!!


JAM,

Not trying to argue either. All that can be true because menhaden are not the only "bait" out there. I know that a few guys are having the drum year of their life as well, but then again some of those guys live there, and fish hard and catch even harder. I applaud those guys who are able to put the time, effort, and sacrifices they do to put up the numbers that they do. I may take a walk or two in the spring but not in the fall... and with the snags, shenanigans, and lack of nighttime access this fall it wasn't worth the hike to me, but to each is own.

NCBBA Tourn...any time you put 250 guys from 23-38 in Oct on the best real estate fish will be caught...
CHAC-a bunch of guys fishing stations on nice real estate...fish will be caught...

No I don't live there and no I don't spend everyday out there on the water but I find it hard to believe the bunker population is ok. The 10 year comment is relative to bass and bunker back in the early to mid 2000s. Many a blitzes on the north beach back then and those fish were on bunker. Its nice you have the figures for menhaden fecundity, but did you know the statistical catch at age has been consistently going down? The tonnage is the same but the amount of fish caught is higher. I have no problem with commercial fishing, but I do have a problem with a public resource being exploited by one company for financial gain when they are clearly much more valuable if they were left in the water to be a filter feed and forage base. I don't have a problem with the bait fishery because it is sustainable, the reduction fishery needs reigning in to be sustainable, I would personally like to see Omega go the way of the dodo. Its been proven they have not cared for the resource, time for VMRC to take control from the VA general assembly.

As far as my comment on Audubon coming for OIFC, teaches ect... I have been run off of too many beaches from the likes of them and their ilk...and its just nice to see them coming for someone other than the beach people for a change, try not to take it personally. If it were the harbor in Ptown Cape Cod I would feel the same way, not really sour grapes just happened in close to home this time. You did choose to live on an island dependent on tourism and fishing money correct? That's one of the tradeoffs of living on the island, always has been that way, but the NPS has made it clear you/me/islanders/visitors are not wanted. How long did people really think the NPS was going to wait before going after OIFC? There is a lot of $ the NPS wants to get their hands on, not just in the way of ORV passes and lighthouse climbs...

North beach has done better than it has in many years,point was great in the spring and could have been more numbers with access this fall.. Drum fishing was at a height I haven't seen in years from Corova to Hatteras,boats,piers,and surf...

Yes,Jam and I live on an island and knew the gambles.. Although special interest groups should not have the power to determine our futures.. If there are gambles it should be with mother nature,not your fellow man!!

drumchaser
12-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Just cookie cutters here in Wb this morning. 20-30 All betwenst 10-13". Which is fine with me I don't keep specks anyhow. My partners like one fried every now and again though.

LEADDRAFT
12-06-2014, 08:52 PM
Adding great Striper run here in the CFR, (in the spring feedin on Pogies)...blow the powerlines,, ain't seen noithing sice...

sand flea
12-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Almost everyone agrees that the drum run has been great the last few years and only getting better. Let's not forget that in the early 2000s the ASMFC put pressure on states to get their act together and implement a slot limit. Before that point you could keep 5 drum a day with no upper size limit in many states. Sure, there are other factors but when you stop people from killing big spawners you end up with more fish.

On the menhaden fishery you need to take a long view. It is hard to describe if you've never seen it: schools right off the beach the size of a football field, the water black and churned up, the surface nervous and choppy with pops and slashes of whitewater, all of it moving slowly up or down the beach. And a school this size came past three or four times a day until the mid-90s. I think a lot of people accept the current situation as normal because it's all they've ever seen. It's not normal. And this wasn't just Hatteras. It was in almost every state with a decent stretch of coastline on any summer day. And now it's gone.

Whether it's menhaden or drum or stripers there is one simple fact: if you hammer the hell out of them they will get scarce. If you let most of their big spawners escape our nets and hooks you'll be rewarded with some great fishing.

JAM
12-10-2014, 06:30 PM
Almost everyone agrees that the drum run has been great the last few years and only getting better. Let's not forget that in the early 2000s the ASMFC put pressure on states to get their act together and implement a slot limit. Before that point you could keep 5 drum a day with no upper size limit in many states. Sure, there are other factors but when you stop people from killing big spawners you end up with more fish.

On the menhaden fishery you need to take a long view. It is hard to describe if you've never seen it: schools right off the beach the size of a football field, the water black and churned up, the surface nervous and choppy with pops and slashes of whitewater, all of it moving slowly up or down the beach. And a school this size came past three or four times a day until the mid-90s. I think a lot of people accept the current situation as normal because it's all they've ever seen. It's not normal. And this wasn't just Hatteras. It was in almost every state with a decent stretch of coastline on any summer day. And now it's gone.

Whether it's menhaden or drum or stripers there is one simple fact: if you hammer the hell out of them they will get scarce. If you let most of their big spawners escape our nets and hooks you'll be rewarded with some great fishing.

MY question to you Sand Flea, is what are all these Fish eating, the Drum, the Kings, the BlueFins???? Omega has been around for over 100 years, each Female Menhaden is Capable of 362,000 Eggs, sure they put a Dent in the Population and Thin the Herd, and that is necessary, to keep disease and numbers in check.

The Drum Moratorium came about in 96 I believe and it was only supposed to be in place for 10 years, here we are 20 years later and guess what, the same rules are in place. Now: with a Negative affect, ask the Crabbers of Maryland.. 165 a Bushel for Blue Crabs this Year. Drum Love Crabs.

Consider the Food Chain of the Ocean as a Pyramid/Triangle, if you keep protecting the Apex Predators of the Oceans, which are the Top of the Pyramid/Triangle, your Sharks, Your Marlins, Your Tunas, Your Red Drums, and Your Stripers and Blues, what will eventually happen is the Pyramid/Triangle Will Invert, and it no longer will be resting on a Wide Base ( the Smaller Bait Fish) it will be resting on it's Point, and the whole thing will come tumbling Down.

If we took to Fisheries management, lets say to Manage People, Cause we want to Increase the Population of People, Via the Fisheries Model, and we were no longer allowed to Take Adults, But were allowed to Take One Teenager, each Day, How would that Help increasing the Population???

MIS-MANAGEMENT by over protection and Poor Science is doing Way more Damage then OMEGA could ever think of Doing. Just look at the Charter for NOAA and the DMF's it used to be to "Sustain and Increase Populations of Fish For Harvest" Now its "To Conserve Fish so Future Generations can see them" More Environmentalism Brought to you by the Pew Foundation and the CCA's of America.

Remember this: If you Practice Catch and release, there are no Rules... It's the Same as the Audubon, SELC and their Likes, More For me and Less for you, and hey were gonna make more Money then the Fishermen Ever thought of Making, by Suing, Rule Making, Enforcement and Fines...

All I am saying that is in this Day and Age of Technology, why let Nature take its course, why not Breed and release what ever Number of what ever species you want, lets increasen the numbers on everything to reflect the increase of population around the world. I would rather "Increase and Sustain" Then "Conserve and Point Fingers"

JAM

Elgreco
12-10-2014, 07:09 PM
MY question to you Sand Flea, is what are all these Fish eating, the Drum, the Kings, the BlueFins???? Omega has been around for over 100 years, each Female Menhaden is Capable of 362,000 Eggs, sure they put a Dent in the Population and Thin the Herd, and that is necessary, to keep disease and numbers in check. All these fish have existed for thousands of years without humans so I don't think we are necessary to keep them in check.

KB Spot Chaser
12-10-2014, 07:38 PM
MY question to you Sand Flea, is what are all these Fish eating, the Drum, the Kings, the BlueFins???? Omega has been around for over 100 years, each Female Menhaden is Capable of 362,000 Eggs, sure they put a Dent in the Population and Thin the Herd, and that is necessary, to keep disease and numbers in check.

The Drum Moratorium came about in 96 I believe and it was only supposed to be in place for 10 years, here we are 20 years later and guess what, the same rules are in place. Now: with a Negative affect, ask the Crabbers of Maryland.. 165 a Bushel for Blue Crabs this Year. Drum Love Crabs.

Consider the Food Chain of the Ocean as a Pyramid/Triangle, if you keep protecting the Apex Predators of the Oceans, which are the Top of the Pyramid/Triangle, your Sharks, Your Marlins, Your Tunas, Your Red Drums, and Your Stripers and Blues, what will eventually happen is the Pyramid/Triangle Will Invert, and it no longer will be resting on a Wide Base ( the Smaller Bait Fish) it will be resting on it's Point, and the whole thing will come tumbling Down.

If we took to Fisheries management, lets say to Manage People, Cause we want to Increase the Population of People, Via the Fisheries Model, and we were no longer allowed to Take Adults, But were allowed to Take One Teenager, each Day, How would that Help increasing the Population???

MIS-MANAGEMENT by over protection and Poor Science is doing Way more Damage then OMEGA could ever think of Doing. Just look at the Charter for NOAA and the DMF's it used to be to "Sustain and Increase Populations of Fish For Harvest" Now its "To Conserve Fish so Future Generations can see them" More Environmentalism Brought to you by the Pew Foundation and the CCA's of America.

Remember this: If you Practice Catch and release, there are no Rules... It's the Same as the Audubon, SELC and their Likes, More For me and Less for you, and hey were gonna make more Money then the Fishermen Ever thought of Making, by Suing, Rule Making, Enforcement and Fines...

All I am saying that is in this Day and Age of Technology, why let Nature take its course, why not Breed and release what ever Number of what ever species you want, lets increasen the numbers on everything to reflect the increase of population around the world. I would rather "Increase and Sustain" Then "Conserve and Point Fingers"

JAM

Drum moratorium came in October 22, 1998

JAM
12-10-2014, 08:31 PM
All these fish have existed for thousands of years without humans so I don't think we are necessary to keep them in check.

Jesus Fished with Nets, and that was 2000 years ago. What about Deer populations?? I grew up in Westchester County NY where they Banned Hunting in the late 60's early 70's, guess whats right next to Westchester County, Lyme Connecticut, Home of Lyme Disease. No Checks and Balances there either...

Elgreco
12-10-2014, 10:25 PM
Probably because we all but wiped out the deer's natural predators so we have to take that spot on the food chain. Wolves and cougar numbers are a fraction of what they used to be. It goes both ways. Kill all the predators and the prey's numbers skyrocket. Kill all the prey and the predators die out. Humans are the ones that ruined all of the checks and balances.

drumchaser
12-11-2014, 06:42 AM
There's been a black Panther spotted around these parts also. Go figure!

LEADDRAFT
12-11-2014, 06:29 PM
Dolphines >sp< are having a field day(s) eatingTROUT.. I noticed it today..

Drumdum
12-11-2014, 08:22 PM
Dolphines >sp< are having a field day(s) eatingTROUT.. I noticed it today..


They love pups as well... Cormorants like whatever fish are available,as they eat one and a half times their body weight every day!!

sand flea
12-11-2014, 09:17 PM
MY question to you Sand Flea, is what are all these Fish eating, the Drum, the Kings, the BlueFins???? Omega has been around for over 100 years, each Female Menhaden is Capable of 362,000 Eggs, sure they put a Dent in the Population and Thin the Herd, and that is necessary, to keep disease and numbers in check.

The Drum Moratorium came about in 96 I believe and it was only supposed to be in place for 10 years, here we are 20 years later and guess what, the same rules are in place. Now: with a Negative affect, ask the Crabbers of Maryland.. 165 a Bushel for Blue Crabs this Year. Drum Love Crabs.


I'm good with letting the predators thin the herd. They don't need our help. So the crabs...guess what's putting pressure on them?

“Looking at the Chesapeake Bay specifically, striped bass prefer menhaden, which is really low,” O’Connell said. So they start eating crabs, “but they’re not as nutritious as menhaden,” he said. “Striped bass are more susceptible to get diseased when they’re distressed, and that’s happening.” [source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/good-sturgeon-return-bad-rockfish-fall-ugly-a-killer-plant-comes-back-to-the-bay/2014/09/28/50dc9e74-44ea-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html)]

That's why the crabs are in trouble. Because we've let menhaden get wiped out, stripers are chowing down on crabs.

Look, I'm not anti-commercial. Small operations keep seafood on our tables and support local communities. And I get why you hate overreaching governments and clueless bureaucrats wrecking things they don't understand. But that doesn't mean there's no such thing as overfishing or that the government doesn't have a role in keeping it in check.

JAM
12-12-2014, 01:50 PM
And I'm not a Commercial Fisherman, but I believe all types of the "TRIBE" of Fishermen should Stick together and not let Wolves in Sheeps Clothing pit us against each other, to Write the Rules ala CCA. Flea you are helping to make my Point But then why are people Crying there are no Stripers? And if there are Stripers why have the regs just changed??

A few definitions you might be surprised of their actual meaning:
"Overfishing/overfished: According to the National Standard Guidelines, "overfishing occurs whenever a stock or stock complex is subjected to a rate or level of fishing mortality that jeopardizes the capacity of a stock or stock complex to produce MSY on a continuing basis." Overfishing is occurring if FTHRESHOLD is exceeded for a year or more. An "overfished" stock has been reduced below BTHRESHOLD requiring management actions to rebuild to the MSY level within an acceptable time frame".

Ya see above they are basing over fishing on fish Mortality... Now the Good One..

"Mortality rates: The rates at which fish die from fishing and/or natural causes".

So by their (NOAA) definitions and terms "OverFishing" is also based on Fish Mortality, which includes, Natural Causes, Old Age, Storms and Predation..

Now is that a Fair and Balanced way to Describe "OVERFISHING"? No it's semantics to be able to Close/Reduce any Fish Species they desire, because they are in Bed with the Environmentalists and their "Progressive" Insert Liberal Political ways of thinking.

Like I have said before instead of saying this is Closed or Reduced: Why not do things to INCREASE the Populations of the Species in So Called Trouble? A: Because without Emergencies they have no Cushy Hi-Paid/Government retirement Jobs.

Why not move to a Stocking Type Program and make more Fish to be able to feed a Growing Population of Humans???? Go back tot he original Charter of NOAA...

I get ya Flea and I know you understand where I am coming from, but allot of these things I am Pointing out, are not for you, but are for the Kool-Aid Drinking Population of Fishermen that do not get it. And think the CCA are the saviors of the Fishing World...

Remember if we as Citizens of the USA do not catch the fish someone else will (Foreign Countries) and then they will sell it to US. This year they have all but put Gloucester out of Business.. We are already importing 80 percent of the Fish we Consume here... We are only 5 percent of the worlds population, so why are we shooting ourselves in the Feet????

JAM