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#1
11-05-2009, 01:26 PM
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Initial Review of HR 3962
From the CBO Estimate of HR 3962:
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“The estimate includes a projected net cost of $894 billion over 10 years for the proposed expansions in insurance coverage.” (p.2) "Over the 2010–2019 period, the net cost of the coverage expansions would be more than offset by the combination of other spending changes, which CBO estimates would save $426 billion, and receipts resulting from the income tax surcharge on high-income individuals and other provisions, which JCT and CBO estimate would increase federal revenues by $572 billion over that period." (p.2) "It would require individuals to purchase health insurance, starting in 2013, and would in many cases impose a financial penalty on people who did not do so." (p. 2) "It would impose a “play-or-pay” requirement on employers, who would either have to offer qualifying insurance to their employees and contribute a substantial share toward the premiums, or pay a fee to the federal government that would generally equal 8 percent of their payroll." (p.4) “…penalty payments by uninsured individuals, which would yield receipts of about $33 billion, and penalty payments by employers under the play-or-pay requirement, which would total about $135 billion…” (p.5) "By 2019, CBO and JCT estimate, the number of nonelderly people who are uninsured would be reduced by about 36 million, leaving about 18 million nonelderly residents uninsured (about one-third of whom would be unauthorized immigrants)." (p.5) So basically, it’ll cost $894 billion (that’s $894,000,000,000) over 10 years to insure about 36 million currently uninsured people at a net cost of approximately $25 thousand per person, or about $2500/person/year. There would be penalties to you if you don’t have insurance and to your employer if they don’t offer insurance. The bill makes no mention of how it’ll reduce costs for those that currently have insurance… Of the $572 billion in tax receipts, $558 billion will be from new taxes (see JCX-43-09). The lion share of which is an additional 5.4% tax on those making $500 thousand single or $1 million joint, totaling about $460 billion which means if you make $500 thousand per year, in addition to the $283 thousand (~56%) in taxes you pay annually, you get the pleasure of paying an additional $27,000 This is a good idea? 
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#2
11-05-2009, 10:39 PM
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Nobody has any comments on what would be one of the monumental wealth redistribution and penalty schemes ever? They (the House) are about to ram a massive taxation and mandate bill down our throats with HR 3962
Nowhere does it make any mention of making health care more affordable, nor are there any provisions for trying out alternative modes of payment (such as HSAs with catastrophic coverage). New taxes, individual penalties, employer penalties, mandates of "covered services", free health insurance for nearly 12 million "unauthorized immigrants", and free health insurance for lazy bums who can't even work a minimum wage job are pretty much all that's in there. Oh, and the rest of us get to be saddled with an additional $500 billion in new taxes.  People can think or fantasize what they like about the "Hope and Change Health Care Reform and affordable health care for all Americans with fluffy bunnies and unicorns", but this is the bill that's up for consideration and vote. Nothing more, nothing less. No amount of campaign rhetoric, lofty promises or oaths of transparency will change the fact that this bill will impose a government bureaucracy between you and your doctor. Last edited by AtlantaKing; 11-05-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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#3
11-06-2009, 03:43 AM
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All those numbers make my head hurt! That's why I have my wife balance the check book.
__________________
"What you won't hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge, and patriotism as a bludgeon -- that sees our opponents not as competitors to challenge, but enemies to demonize."
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#4
11-06-2009, 05:06 AM
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do we qualify for a bailout for this?
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#5
11-06-2009, 08:34 AM
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Here is my review
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#6
11-06-2009, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
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#7
11-06-2009, 01:03 PM
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Wow, thanks for translating CT. Like LRJ, makes my head hurt. Right now I'm not in the $500k annual income range....
 But a significant point here is as you mentioned, this does not reduce the cost of insurance currently as well as other medical costs.
__________________
I fish, therefore I am... Club XJ Have Jack Black, will travel... "Mama, I think you need to take Fishbreath's crayons away...." - Dr. Bubba "Looks like Milt was in the Jack again" - Cdog
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#9
11-06-2009, 02:48 PM
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What I would have liked to have seen was tort reform, the ability to choose which insurance company you wanted to buy from and banning companies from excluding people based on pre-existing conditions.
I have the option of one insurance company with my work plan. Every year the cost goes up and the benefits go down.
__________________
"A house divided against itself cannot stand" - Abraham Lincoln 
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#11
11-06-2009, 04:27 PM
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You need to read up on the back handed way Mr. Moore put this so called documentary together. Then make up your mind. It's full of lies. Cuba's great health was the funniest part of the movie.
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#12
11-06-2009, 05:03 PM
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 . I agree.. his points are one sided ( just like the Fox news network ).. but he did open my eyes on how the other side works...
__________________
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#13
11-06-2009, 05:39 PM
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You know its funny how FOX has become such a punching bag. They are the ONLY TV news source that even dares to show any point of view that doesn't march lockstep with the administration and they are said to be unfair. What a joke. Spend some time and listen to MSNBC or CNN or ABC News carry Barrys water for the entire time that they are on the air. An A-HOLE like Keith Oberman and a dyke like Rachel Maddow after him and lets not forget the Mr I get excitement crawling up my leg every time I hear Obama Chris Mathews and people can say a word about FOX!!! Give me a break!!!
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#14
11-06-2009, 05:43 PM
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As far as this pile of poop the Dems are calling healthcare reform. It is(and they admit it) a stepping stone down the path to a single payer system. When the supporters of this bill have to call a dude in Washington and get permission to make an appointment for their sick kid to see the DR. Well they will deserve everything they will get!!! Unfortunately the rest of us will get screwed to!!!
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#15
11-06-2009, 06:42 PM
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Alot of you guys might be too young to see how the Gov't has been nibbling away at individual freedoms over the last 30 years that the founding fathers have provided for us all. Reagan put a stop to alot of it. He warned us all 20, 30, & 40 years ago how it was going to happen. He's been right on the mark!
These are not democrats that are in power now. They are socialists and marxists. There are alot of speech's by Reagan on YouTube.... go look at a few and tell me the guy was not "right on the mark". Last edited by J_Lannon; 11-06-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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#16
11-06-2009, 06:53 PM
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Incidentally, most insurance companies will already take pre-existing conditions although there's usually a "waiting period" or increased premiums until the time limit is up. However, for most people, this can be compensated by buying catastrophic insurance during the waiting period, buying supplemental insurance, or just paying out of pocket. It doesn't take a government mandate to do that.  No tort reform in any way, shape or form, though. 
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#17
11-06-2009, 07:04 PM
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J Lannon is the MAN!! It is amazing to me that one of the most desired things in the entire world. The thing that children in other countries dream of, the thing that their fathers fight to the death for, the things their mothers are persecuted because they dont have . FREEDOM is the thing we so easily are giving away.
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#18
11-07-2009, 07:29 AM
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Oh com'n guys, you can't just do common sense things like enact medical tort reform, allow health insurance to be sold across state lines and address the waste and fraud in Medicare! Definitely not! Ya gotta spend trillions of dollars THAT WE DON'T HAVE so the dollar falls to a point where the USA is bankrupt, then we can all do a huge group hug, sing Kumbiya and adopt a NEW GLOBAL CURRENCY!
__________________
Ya know ya got a biggun when folks think the pic is a photo shop job! 
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#19
11-07-2009, 10:27 AM
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Whoever is as appalled and mortified by the sweeping changes that are about to be voted on, please call your Congressman and let them know you absolutely DO NOT SUPPORT HR 3962. The Speaker is calling for a Saturday session to vote on this monstrosity.
House of Representatives main Switchboard: (202) 224-3121
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#20
11-07-2009, 05:13 PM
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There were some HR 3962 petition types going door to door in my neighborhood today. I politely pointed out that I could not ever support him with his quest. He asked why, and I told him that if he could not understand the NO SOLICITING sign on my front door, then there was no way in hell that he understands what the hell he is wasting his time on.
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#21
11-07-2009, 08:01 PM
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#22
11-07-2009, 08:46 PM
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Never mind the Constitutionality of that (equal protection under the law and all that), but there's gotta be some sane people who see this as wrong. It's like this: there's something I want, but I can't afford it, so we'll just write this new law that takes, by force, from those that can afford it and give it to me. Anyone notice why there's no sunset provision in this bill? I mean, if it does all the wondrous and miraculous things, Congress would be jumping to renew it before it sunsets, right? Heck, the IRS is involved in this one, and we all know just how efficient and streamlined they are, right? Additionally, if all they were interested in doing was "lowering health insurance costs" and "insuring the uninsured", the quickest, easiest and probably cheapest way would be to provide grants/subsidies to individuals who pay health insurance costs over a certain percentage of income, and extend Medicare/Medicaid benefits to the rest. That'll take care of just as many people without punitive taxes and a government run ponzi scheme. Last edited by AtlantaKing; 11-07-2009 at 09:10 PM.
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#24
11-07-2009, 11:32 PM
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And so it begins. The bill is going for a House floor vote in a few minutes.
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#25
11-07-2009, 11:43 PM
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Yep, watching it live. Might be the most important vote in my lifetime.
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